US Politics: Nancy's Knock on the Senate Door

[James Arryn]

No idea if it’s credible, but the Iranian PM is essentially saying that Soleimani was where he was because the US lured him there for talks on de-escalation. 

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213842781455757314 

[DireWolfSpirit]

ThinkerX"s post made me curious enough to check our history of using child soldiers during our own war against the southern aggression. (Or the Boys War, as it's been suggested as an apt monikor?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_soldiers_in_the_American_Civil_War

Between 250,000 and 420,000 boys under 17 were involved in the American Civil War, for both the Union and the Confederacy.^[1] It is estimated that 100,000 Union soldiers were under 15 years old.^[2]

Given the large number of young men in the American Civil War, compared to the number of older men, one author stated that it “might have been called The Boys’ War.”^[3]

 

 

[DMC]

Every war is the boys' war.

[James Arryn]

It’s almost as if war is an absolutely terrible thing that really ought to only ever be a very last resort as opposed to a perpetual state for 50+ years about which to parrot talking points about supporting the troops and fetishize via video games and movies and such and for which initial endeavour two of two parties inevitably support with overwhelming majorities because not doing that is very unpopular. 

[Jace, Extat]

Gotta keep them nukes outta the hands of the Iranians.

[Spockydog]

The Pentagon offered Trump a cock-thumb. But then he went and cut his cock off.

Pentagon Officials Reportedly “Stunned” by Trump’s Decision to Kill Soleimani

Quote

When top American military officials presented President Donald Trump with the option to kill Maj. Gen. Qassim Soleimani, Iran’s most powerful commander, they didn’t actually think he would take it, reports the New York Times. Pentagon officials usually include a far-out option when they present possibilities to the president in order to make the others seem less extreme. The other options presented to Trump in Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach resort, included strikes against Iranian ships or missile facilities or militias backed by Iran that are operating in Iraq. “The Pentagon also tacked on the choice of targeting General Suleimani, mainly to make other options seem reasonable,” reports the Times.

 

[ThinkerX]

11 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Ooh, I wonder who was circulating them.

That would have been the likes of 'Newsweek,' 'US News and World Report,' and 'Times.'  Print media, as Al Gore had yet to invent the internet.  

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Triskele said:

[Even if you believe polls that show a decent number of Bernie voters would shift to Biden as their second choice, this would still leave an awful lot of unhappy and homeless Sanders supporters around to stir up trouble.] -From an article in The Week, NOT Triskele.

I do believe those polls.  Because they've been showing the same thing consistently for a long time.  I think there's a way to explain, but I do acknowledge it is weird.  The empirical fact is there are Biden-Sanders voters, and then there are Warren-Buttigieg voters.  The former are obviously much larger.  Impossible to game out what that means right now, but once voting starts, it's a good thing to keep in mind.

[Werthead]

Apparently there is now an $80 million bounty on Trump's head, although that does seem kind of low. Being able to take him out and pick up the reward would seem to be quite challenging.

Meanwhile, reports starting to come in that US Border Patrol has stopped American citizens of Iranian descent or origin from re-entering the USA at the Canada-WA border.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

The Pentagon offered Trump a cock-thumb. But then he went and cut his cock off.

Pentagon Officials Reportedly “Stunned” by Trump’s Decision to Kill Soleimani

 

How fucking stupid do you have to be, after over three years with Dumbass Donnie, to think it's a good idea to present him with "far out" options and hope he chooses the less extreme options?

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Meanwhile, reports starting to come in that US Border Patrol has stopped American citizens of Iranian descent or origin from re-entering the USA at the Canada-WA border.

This. Is. Sparta!!!

[Centrist Simon Steele]

3 hours ago, Triskele said:

This article touches on something I think had come up in the thread about what happens if Bernie is competitive but loses in a similar fashion to 2016?   

I post not necessarily as an endorsement.  I'm also worried about the possibility of depressed turnout of another kind of Bernie should win.  It makes me wonder sometimes if Warren has the most unifying potential in the sense that she might be more acceptable to Sanders supporters and Biden supporters although some of the stuff DMC and others have posted makes me doubt that a bit as well as the type of thing that pops into my head but is perhaps not supported by the data all that much.  

 

 

 

 

I think it's very likely that traditional libs will protest and not turn out for Bernie. These are the college educated, upper middle class we hear love Warren, so another Trump cycle doesn't truly hurt them. The depressed turnout in 2016, though, is super hard to tie to Sanders supporters. I also think the data, in these matters anyway, isn't a good measure of reliability. Media tries to use data to drive action, and that's not how it works.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, Triskele said:

That would sure be disappointing.  Fake-hating Trump is unacceptable.  

Agreed. But I hear it all the time. Maybe it's a "threat" so people like me don't vote for Bernie, but that sentiment seems to be running rampant. I do think there is legitimate Trump hate, but some liberals hate leftists more.

[Jaxom 1974]

7 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Agreed. But I hear it all the time. Maybe it's a "threat" so people like me don't vote for Bernie, but that sentiment seems to be running rampant. I do think there is legitimate Trump hate, but some liberals hate leftists more.

Bernie is the only candidate of the top tier that should force me to hold my nose while punching the ballot, but my disdain and dislike for him erring prevent me from voting for him if he's my option. 

And before I'm jumped on, I'm not 100% against chunks of his agenda, I happen to think there are things to think about there, even if how he gets it done is murky.  I find him utterly fake in many ways that I have trouble explaining at times beyond there is something about Bernie that makes my skin crawl.  I truly feel he is NOT the individual meant to bring forth the progressive vision he espouses.  

[James Arryn]

Trump threatens to sanction Iraq to the hilt, making the Iranian sanctions look like nothing, if they pursue this idea of evicting US forces. And he won’t leave until they pay the billions the US spent on the US military airport there. 
 

“Liberators”.

Edit: In case people aren’t versed in the history of colonialism, this tact is a standard threat levelled against colonial powers seeking the achieve their independence. But America is certainly not a neo-colonial state, I’m told.

[James Arryn]

Also, there’s this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213885371802701825

NIAC‏Verified account @NIACouncil

FollowFollow @NIACouncil

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URGENT: we are hearing credible reports of detentions at US borders, both of Iranian Americans and permanent residents. We are working to independently verify, coordinating with lawmakers & allies. If you have information please share it directly with us at [email protected]

[DireWolfSpirit]

"Trump threatens to sanction Iraq to the hilt, making the Iranian sanctions look like nothing, if they pursue this idea of evicting US forces. And he won’t leave until they pay the billions the US spent on the US military airport there. "

^^^ This entirely pisses me off. Especially the bit of trying to blackmail the country you've perpetrated an occupation on.
 

[DMC]

6 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

I think it's very likely that traditional libs will protest and not turn out for Bernie. These are the college educated, upper middle class we hear love Warren, so another Trump cycle doesn't truly hurt them

Based on what?  I really don't like Bernie.  But I'll be there to canvass or whatever if he wins the nomination.  I'm not aware of any data that says Sanders wouldn't garner standard Democratic support.  In fact, quite the opposite.  Considering his correlation with Biden's supporters, one would expect most "traditional libs" would be in the same position I am hypothetically.  Where can I spit before I have to vote for him?

[IheartIheartTesla]

I would be a potential Sanders - Biden voter. It isn't that hard to explain, leaving aside the noise around hard core supporters of all candidates (except Biden, not sure if I've ever seen a :hard-core" supporter of him), most are pragmatic and will take whatever second choice they are offered. In fact, there is a good argument to be made that Biden doesnt enjoy the visceral hatred or irrational queasiness many voters felt around Clinton, so he may get more of the Sanders voters in the general.

Or maybe in line with historical averages,

[Maithanet]

I do think that Biden is less "hateable" than Clinton.  His personal story is fairly compelling, and his "aw shucks" affects help him from coming across as too phony.

Nonetheless, I think he is exactly the wrong candidate for the moment, and I think if Democrats nominate him, they'll regret it.  When Maryland votes in late April, I am really hoping I'm not just facing a choice between Sanders and Biden.