DMC Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, Fez said: And now all those values are in retreat everywhere. It's not all at the same pace, and it didn't all start at the same time everywhere. But it's looking like a roughly 50 year period was a blip in a timeline of over 2,500 years, and not a permanent change in how humans organize their societies. In the US specifically, the GOP has hastened this trend, I don't think it's just a blip. It informs politics throughout the world, still. Are we dealing with a backlash against it? Yeah. But there's also the backlash to that backlash, at least in the US (I don't follow other countries enough to say). Even at the optimal point with all the values/beliefs/policies you identified, when was that? Identify that time and ask yourself if we were better off then than we are now. Other than progressive taxation, I strongly suspect it's better now than what it was in the past. Anyway, to reiterate, the effects of FDR's coalition weren't just dust in the wind. It established social welfare policies that have sustained to this day. Acting like that certain period was particularly unique suggests we can't go beyond it. And that's just manifestly false. Hell, look at what Sanders and Warren are proposing. Again, it's absurd to think just because we had about 50 years of comity - and don't now - that that means the values being expressed are in "retreat" in any way. They're just confronting a bunch of asshats that are out of their hoods and into the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, DMC said: I thought I told you already I don't have any change. When that's all you got we know how dire. You don't really believe any of this isn't intentional and that it is going to be recovered from -- before climate catastrophe makes any of these particular conflicts and rivalries moot? If you do, I'd like your meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Zorral said: before climate catastrophe makes any of these particular conflicts and rivalries moot? Definitely, I'll give ya climate catastrophe. That's not something any of us can control, so I don't see much point in worrying about it. That's why my meds remain weed and hard liquor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: Yep, I've been saying something similar to this to my friends. I'm convinced that the relative progressivism of the second half of the 20th century was an outlier in world history, because of the unique circumstances: the Great Depression, World War 2, the end of colonial empires, FDR's unprecedented and not to be repeated tenure. Ya but ya know there's no spare change so stop yr all bellyachin' coz we seem as even here, all the 'experts' about politics who know nothing but polls and and don't even seem to care about actual voters getting to vote tell us every moment that it's all going to be taken care of with an election that they get paid big bux to poll and tell everyone what's what about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: 2. Ernst literally had the temerity to go on live TV and admit it's all about politics and hurting Biden. They all know exactly what's going on and they support it. Every senator who votes against witnesses is complicit 100% in everything Trump does. Don't think I didn't see that. That's why Grassley is a notch higher than her in my estimation. She was doing her best to sit on the fence until the trial got going, now she's just all in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Gertrude said: A tangent - why does the right like memes so much? Not just the trolly younger generation, my dad sends them to me although I ask him not to. Not just the memes of 'ha-ha, Bernie's a communist!' but the chain-letters with stories of brave patriots who weep for our country and scary immigrants doing bad things, etc. Old people, basically. Also, conservatives in general are less critical of news coming from people they consider part of their ingroup; they are less likely to interrogate it or distrust it if the source is someone they like, and they are less likely to care if it is not actually truthful provided it backs what they care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Yeah, the letters I get, but that still doesn't explain the memes. My dad's generation isn't making them, but he sure loves to laugh at them and pass them on. It's not like it's news - it's just making fun of the opposition because they're so obviously stoooopid. I mean, I don't see that kind of thing going the opposite way. Or maybe I'm just not looking in the right places? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Lamar Alexander has come out against witnesses. The fat lady has sung. The prospect of a 50-50 tied vote AND Roberts breaking the tie is virtually non-existent. And this assumes that Romney and Murkowski don't switch or abstain because it is futile. Straw poll: Should I bother going to see the hearing tomorrow in the Senate? It will be depressing as hell to see Trump's acquittal in person. But it is a historic moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Kalbear said: And in other fuck Sanders news, it's gonna be interesting to see how he spins supporting George Wallace in 1972. It's also interesting to read how his views are really unchanged - both in his class struggles against the rich, and his being completely fine with open racism if it's popular. https://twitter.com/doctor_eon/status/1222983729905197056?s=20 Man, I can see how someone who already dislikes Sanders can read it that way but what the fuck? He isn't saying that George Wallace is good, in fact he calls Wallace's solutions outrageous, what he is talking about is Wallace's ability to connect with voters where they are at and tap into their prejudices galvanize them. It's literally the same thing that everyone says about Trump now. That reading of the quote is entirely disingenuous and absolutely in bad faith. Here is a video of Bernie talking about how George Wallace was able to tap into the simmering racial resentment Here's an column that Bernie wrote in the same year that quite clearly does not reflect a positive opinion of Wallace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrist Simon Steele Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: Man, I can see how someone who already dislikes Sanders can read it that way but what the fuck? He isn't saying that George Wallace is good, in fact he calls Wallace's solutions outrageous, what he is talking about is Wallace's ability to connect with voters where they are at and tap into their prejudices galvanize them. It's literally the same thing that everyone says about Trump now. That reading of the quote is entirely disingenuous and absolutely in bad faith. Here is a video of Bernie talking about how George Wallace was able to tap into the simmering racial resentment Here's an column that Bernie wrote in the same year that quite clearly does not reflect a positive opinion of Wallace Evidence won't work with haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Gertrude said: Yeah, the letters I get, but that still doesn't explain the memes. My dad's generation isn't making them, but he sure loves to laugh at them and pass them on. It's not like it's news - it's just making fun of the opposition because they're so obviously stoooopid. I mean, I don't see that kind of thing going the opposite way. Or maybe I'm just not looking in the right places? There's tons of leftist ones out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Oh my fucking god, I can't even with Joni Ernst. I woke today to find her newsletter in my inbox. For those of you that remember, she ran on a campaign of "Make 'em Squeal" which is cutting pork and making Washington squeal (in reference to castrating pigs). She ran on cutting waste (failure), repealing Obamacare (failure) and balancing the budget (failure). Anyway, her most recent pet project is eliminating the Presidential Campaign Fund - the money you can donate on your tax form to public campaign funding. It's just sitting there, you know, gathering dust. No one applied for it ... Quote And even if one did, the Federal Election Commission, which administered the program, currently doesn’t have enough members to hold a meeting to approve the request! I immediately saw red. Just fucking red in the face and I tore off an email to vent my spleen. I then erased it and took out the curse words and tried to be adult about it - I may have failed a little. I think it was the exclamation point conveying concerned pearl-clutching that may have put me a little over the top. This gets sent on the day the fucking president is going to be acquitted for an illegal campaign favor. The same president that paid off Stormy Daniels in violation of campaign finance laws. The same fucking president who could fill the FEC, but why the fuck would he because they might just slap his wrist and hurt his feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 17 hours ago, Kalbear said: And in other fuck Sanders news, it's gonna be interesting to see how he spins supporting George Wallace in 1972. It's also interesting to read how his views are really unchanged - both in his class struggles against the rich, and his being completely fine with open racism if it's popular. https://twitter.com/doctor_eon/status/1222983729905197056?s=20 And in other fuck Biden news: Quote Former Vice President Joe Biden, who has been emphasizing his civil rights record as he considers a 2020 White House bid, once praised notorious segregationist George Wallace and later claimed to have received an award from him. "I think the Democratic Party could stand a liberal George Wallace — someone who's not afraid to stand up and offend people, someone who wouldn't pander but would say what the American people know in their gut is right,” Biden told the Philadelphia Enquirer on Oct. 12, 1975, referring to the racist then-Alabama governor. And some more: Quote A September 20, 1987, story in the Philadelphia Inquirer reported Biden had bragged about receiving an award from George Wallace, the former Alabama governor and one of America’s most notorious segregationists. The same story went to quote a presidential primary campaign speech Biden had given in Alabama in which he said “we (Delawareans) were on the South’s side in the Civil War.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Lamar logic: Yes he cheated to help himself win an election, so we shouldn’t do anything about it and have another election. JFC we’re boned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 12 hours ago, Triskele said: Do any of you sometimes now wish that back when Trump came down that elevator and started saying stuff that you'd had Zorral around to warn you that he was bad? Maybe we wouldn't be in this mess if you all had just woken up rather than just sit there not realizing where things were headed. Sure, you can talk about polls today, but did you know that Republicans started trying to get more judges and stuff decades ago? I bet that you did not. Actually I did tell everybody then. But I was telling everybody years ago already, including women that they were after contraception and reproductive rights already back in the days of Reagan. They all laughed. It isn't possible, it can't happen here, you're filled with tin foil doo da. And now, these same people continuously inform me that reproductive rights are not just at risk, but have effectively been removed from a very large proportion of women in this country, the police and judges are corrupt, voting is repressed, and the system has been effectively rigged against 'liberalism'. In other words, I did warn. It did no good. Today, the same day the UK leaves the EU, we hear the final, weak, death rattle of democracy in the US. Gosh, these people even hate birds. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/climate/trump-bird-deaths.html Have fun today and in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Tsarevich Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 11 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said: Straw poll: Should I bother going to see the hearing tomorrow in the Senate? Historic moments should be witnessed, so go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 11 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said: Straw poll: Should I bother going to see the hearing tomorrow in the Senate? It will be depressing as hell to see Trump's acquittal in person. But it is a historic moment... There is a Star Wars joke about "Thunderous Applause" in here somewhere. I'm already preparing for the smug comments of. "See, he was acquitted. I told you he did nothing wrong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 New NBC/WSJ poll puts Sanders statistically tied with Biden nationally. Again, might be an outlier, but might also portend something (Sanders is up 6 points since the last poll from them). If I were in Biden's camp I would be seriously worried right now. He needs to up his game somehow and not just coast by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: New NBC/WSJ poll puts Sanders statistically tied with Biden nationally. Again, might be an outlier, but might also portend something (Sanders is up 6 points since the last poll from them). If I were in Biden's camp I would be seriously worried right now. He needs to up his game somehow and not just coast by. I think it depends where the support is coming from. If Sanders is gaining at Warren's expense, I think Biden is still fine; he has a lot of votes he can pool from other candidates that likely favor him over Sanders. But if Sanders is gaining from all over, then Biden is starting to face a lot of trouble. Also, kinda amazing how much more successful Bloomberg has been than Steyer. I know Bloomberg has spent more, but Steyer has spent a ton as well and I can't believe the marginal utility between the difference of the two sums is that much. Bloomberg is at 9% in that poll, putting him in 4th place; Steyer is at 2%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Fez said: Also, kinda amazing how much more successful Bloomberg has been than Steyer. I know Bloomberg has spent more, but Steyer has spent a ton as well and I can't believe the marginal utility between the difference of the two sums is that much. Bloomberg is at 9% in that poll, putting him in 4th place; Steyer is at 2%. Bloomberg is qualified beyond being just a rich dude. Democrats are not interested in electing another unqualified rich dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.