Football: What Football?

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, ants said:

I found the keeper position really really hard.  It feels like all the guys I know and remember as being top notch, all bloody played for major clubs.  So I'm a little scraping the barrel for guys who I remember as being very good in Euros/World Cups that didn't play at major clubs, or I didn't have a conflict with.  I thought Julio Cesar just matched that criteria. 

There you could've gone with one of three Americans, who are/were sound choices.

Chilavert (Paraguay), who most of us picked.

Jorge Campos (Mexico)

Higuita (Colombia)

All perfectly sound choices. Personally I rate Chilavert and Campos higher, but that's open for discussion.

 

[Heartofice]

Chilavert was always the best pick in Championship Manager and has been in every team I've tried to create. Campos and Higuita are excellent wildcard picks too, just for their flamboyance .

[Iskaral Pust]

@ants Even Jan Oblak, arguably #1 GK in the world currently, is a viable pick.  His club career isn’t a major barrier.

Neville Southall is another pick that doesn’t clash much.  Even Peter Schmeichel is possible because there aren’t many United players who couldn’t be replaced easily enough. 

Other possibilities are Cech, Zoff (but Italy and Juve is a high price), Higuita, Jennings, Seaman, Clemence, Preud’homme, Zenga, Dasayev, Shilton, and even worth considering Neuer for your German pick.

[BigFatCoward]

41 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

@ants Even Jan Oblak, arguably #1 GK in the world currently, is a viable pick.  His club career isn’t a major barrier.

Neville Southall is another pick that doesn’t clash much.  Even Peter Schmeichel is possible because there aren’t many United players who couldn’t be replaced easily enough. 

Other possibilities are Cech, Zoff (but Italy and Juve is a high price), Higuita, Jennings, Seaman, Clemence, Preud’homme, Zenga, Dasayev, Shilton, and even worth considering Neuer for your German pick.

or Yashin if you are old as shit, must be the best pick out of everyone, best in history at his position, played for a club that nobody else did, and from a country where you wouldn't want anyone else. 

[john]

Casillas seems the obvious GK pick, as long as you don't mind striking off Madrid. One of the greatest ever, could have played at more big clubs but didn't bother. Tailor made for this game.

Anyway, here is my team again, tweaked to shoehorn in Matthaus, who's certainly the best midfielder of my era.

Casillas

Carlos Alberto Torres, Kompany, Krol, Maldini

Best, Gascoigne, Matthaus, Maradona 

Dalglish, Salas

I mean, that is quality, no selection's going to beat that for quality. Structure's a bit suspect maybe.

And here's my R9 team, pretty much thrown together but not bad - 

Chilavert

Lahm, Kompany, Krol, Robertson

Platini, Best, Valderrama, Francescoli

Ronaldo, Le Tissier

 

[Iskaral Pust]

27 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

or Yashin if you are old as shit, must be the best pick out of everyone, best in history at his position, played for a club that nobody else did, and from a country where you wouldn't want anyone else. 

He’d be the first choice if I was old enough.  Dasayev is similar to Yashin, but more recent.

[Hereward]

I am old enough, hence my pick of Bobby Moore, but I don't recall ever seeing Yashin play, so I didn't feel I could pick him on reputation alone. 

[BigFatCoward]

28 minutes ago, Hereward said:

I am old enough, hence my pick of Bobby Moore, but I don't recall ever seeing Yashin play, so I didn't feel I could pick him on reputation alone. 

That seems kind of limiting. Most people didn't see anyone from overseas play then? 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

6 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Other possibilities are Cech, Zoff (but Italy and Juve is a high price), Higuita, Jennings, Seaman, Clemence, Preud’homme, Zenga, Dasayev, Shilton, and even worth considering Neuer for your German pick.

Schmeichel also takes out City players and Sporting Lisbon (I think he was at Sporting). 

That's kissing goodbye to de Bruyne, or Kompany.

Preud'homme could be annoying, if you want some Portugese player in, Benfica takes out quite a few options.

50 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

That seems kind of limiting. Most people didn't see anyone from overseas play then? 

World Cups.

I remember Campos being pretty good from the 1994 World Cup. On that note, current Mexican goalkeeper Ochoa was also pretty good during the last two World Cups.

You could see quite a bit of football around the European leagues from the 1990s onward, if you wanted to.

On that note, first foreign player I recalled as freakishly good was Robert Prosinecki from that 1990-91 Red Star team, when they made short work of Bayern in the semi-finals(?). He was clearly the best player around that year.

[Iskaral Pust]

Somewhere around 1988-1990 was when I first really noticed foreign players.  I remember Maradonna from 1986, but I was that but older as I watched the Euros in 1988 and WC in 1990, plus Serie A was broadcast on Channel 4 around those years.

The AC Milan team was incredible then with Baresi, Donadoni, Costacurta, Maldini, Albertini, Ancelotti, and of course Gullit, Rijkaard and Van Basten.  But there were players like Hugo Sanchez and Hagi at RM, Signori, Maradonna, Vialli, Mancini, Baggio, etc.  And then you’d occasionally see these Warsaw Pact players of incredible technical skill, who’d disappear back behind the Iron Curtain until the next international tournament.

I remember Dasayev was considered the #1 GK in the world because it was such a big deal that Ronnie Whelan hit that miracle volley past him in 1988.

[ants]

8 hours ago, Hereward said:

I am old enough, hence my pick of Bobby Moore, but I don't recall ever seeing Yashin play, so I didn't feel I could pick him on reputation alone. 

Yeah, even if a player "qualifies" for me, I'm not picking them unless I remember them.  Which really hurts for a lot of the players doing European football, because I only really watch the later rounds of the champions league with clubs I'm interested in.  There were also swathes of years where I didn't watch that (or much EPL) because it was hard to watch in Australia unless you were getting up at 4:00 am on a week day, and the EPL was only on cable which I didn't have.  

[Rorshach]

18 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

@ants Even Jan Oblak, arguably #1 GK in the world currently, is a viable pick.  His club career isn’t a major barrier.

Neville Southall is another pick that doesn’t clash much.  Even Peter Schmeichel is possible because there aren’t many United players who couldn’t be replaced easily enough. 

Other possibilities are Cech, Zoff (but Italy and Juve is a high price), Higuita, Jennings, Seaman, Clemence, Preud’homme, Zenga, Dasayev, Shilton, and even worth considering Neuer for your German pick.

I was (of course!) considering proposing Southall, but then he'd have to change Giggs. 

Easy change in my mind, but I can't speak for ants.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So Bundesliga is gonna produce their concept for finishing the season behind closed doors tomorrow.

Ofc the Bundesliga clubs want to end the season more or less regularly to avoid losses of ~700m € (what it would basically cost them if they called it quits).

Söder (Governor of Bavaria), who who couldn't avoid cameras to show how much of a lpha male he is, and showing of his ego and the power the position has given him, by just forging forwards with actions, and ignoring agreements between the governors of not going solo, and the little Hobbit Laschet (Governor of NRW), who usaully tried to push in the opposite direction with less restrictions, are surprisingly in agreement, that they kinda like the Bundesliga concept. The restart for May 9th is pretty much gone, mid May or end of May is their new hope.

The experts Robert Koch Institute, and politicians who kno what they are talking about, like Lauterbach, are still not impressed. Citign that it would take 20.000 test to finish the season, and they cannot see a way to reasonably justify regular screenings for one specific group (footballers), while other groups (likesay nurses) don't get to enjoy that luxury.

As much as I miss football, and trust me, I do. But it's on a rational level not justifiable. That's not taking other considerations into account. Let's assume, a player catches the virus while playing, and decides to take legal action against the clubs and/or the league.

The Netherlands ahve called it quits, will call it quits, after their FA had a talk with the UEFA.

Bundesliga alternatve scenario. They will resume/finish the season in October, and switch to the playing calender over to the actual calender (would also kinda make sense with the WC in Qatar in 2022).

A real mess is the third tier football. It's around a 50-50 split more or less. Depending on the positioning of the clubs. The clubs on a promotion spot want to end the season now, and take their winnings (promotion) off the table. The teams in pursuit want to end the season regularly. Same holds true on the other end of the table.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

A real mess is the third tier football.

Oh, if you want to see a real mess, go look at the Scottish league's attempts to resolve the season. A vote that had a deadline that wasn't a deadline, decided by a vote that the voting club allegedly told the league in advance not to register, amid allegations of foul play by the governing body. The whole mess now to be resolved by a 14-person working group looking at league reconstruction.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/21/the-voting-farce-questions-the-spfl-must-answer-but-hasnt

[BigFatCoward]

Look away liverpool fans. Dutch top flight abandons season, no champions, no relegation.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Look away liverpool fans. Dutch top flight abandons season, no champions, no relegation.

Well, declaring a Champion in the Netherlands would have been tough.

Ajax and Alkmaar were involved in a proper title race (Ajax just ahead thanks to the goal difference). Which is a big difference to the EPL and the French league, where pretty much anyone could name the champions elect.

The allocations of the European spots will surely have Utrecht steaming. They were in the cup final, and were trailing Willem II by three points, with a game in hand and a much better goal difference. Let's see if they just take it.

The relegation-promotion issue is a farce. Not of Scottish proportions, but almost. A majority of the clubs voted for a promotion solution (16 for, 9 against, 9 neutrals). Cambuur are properly pissed, they were leading in the second tier, were 11 points clear of the third place, with eight games to go. They are considering legal actions.

As much fun as it is to imagine the howling of the Liverpool fans over not getting that league title, I think there's a pretty good case declaring them champions. And honestly, I don't see Guardiola throwing a tantrum over getting cheated out of the chance of catching Liverpool. Sure, you can put an asterisk next to that title, but them not winning it doesn't seem plausible to me. Funny, but not plausible.

[baxus]

From what I've read, big difference between Dutch Eredivisie and the one Premier League situations is that Dutch government has banned sport events until at least September 1st (Dutch board members, correct me if I'm misinformed) so there would've been no way that Dutch could finish their league. UK government is nowhere near that point (now UK board members, correct me if I'm wrong).

And the amount of money in the game is pretty different as well.

Btw, Dutch way of handling this is plain stupid. I hope that clubs take the League and FA to court and take shirts off their back.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 minutes ago, baxus said:

From what I've read, big difference between Dutch Eredivisie and the one Premier League situations is that Dutch government has banned sport events until at least September 1st (Dutch board members, correct me if I'm misinformed) so there would've been no way that Dutch could finish their league. UK government is nowhere near that point (now UK board members, correct me if I'm wrong).

Correct. That started the arbitration process in the Netherlands. However, I don't think the Netherlands will be the last place to ban sport events for the foreseeable future. I think the Bundesliga season is also pretty much done, just that the politicians simply lack the courage to tell your average Joe, that there won't be any football any time soon. I mean, you don't want to be the one to tell the  kids their dog died. So politicians are playing on time, and hope the scientists will tell them to pull the plug, so they can run say: not our fault and run away.

Replace Bundesliga with EPL, and there you go.

[Raja]

You know, if there was a way to watch these, I absolutely would be tuning in

 

[Raja]

lmaoooo - there's a twitch stream actually showing the game