US Politics: Burning Down the Country

[Zorral]

Hey LOCK DOWN IS OVER! PEEPS IN DA STREETS!  JUST WHAT THE CAMO WEARING, LYNCH GOVS, ASSAULT WEAPON DEMOS DEMANDED!

 

[Darth Richard II]

41 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

Shit is real if they closed Wegmans.

Fuck I know, right?

@zorral ffs sake...just....for fucks sake. thats it.

[Freshwater Spartan]

1 hour ago, Triskele said:

Anyone have predictions on how the protests help or hurt Trump?

Given the law and order instincts of the country I have to say Trump.

[Fez]

10 minutes ago, Freshwater Spartan said:

Given the law and order instincts of the country I have to say Trump.

Maybe. But the issue is, Trump's the one in charge. He can't pull a Nixon '68 and say he'll restore law and order; this is all happening on his watch.

[Darth Richard II]

9 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Yeah, plus who knows what Barr is cooking up.

Who the fuck knows. Maybe he'll pull off his face mission impossible style at this point and like Hitler or someone will be underneath. Though that isn;t crazy enough. Maybe like...someone in full klingon make up and he starts shouting in klingon then a bird of prey uncloaks?

[Martell Spy]

George Floyd's brother says Trump 'didn't give me an opportunity to even speak' during phone call

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/politics/george-floyd-brother-talks-trump/index.html

Quote

 

"He didn't give me an opportunity to even speak," Floyd said. "It was hard. I was trying to talk to him, but he just kept, like, pushing me off, like 'I don't want to hear what you're talking about.'
"And I just told him, I want justice. I said that I couldn't believe that they committed a modern-day lynching in broad daylight," he said.

"I asked Vice President Biden -- I never had to beg a man before -- but I asked him, could he please, please get justice for my brother," Floyd said.

 

 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

2 hours ago, Bonnot OG said:

 

ACAB, and FTP for good measure.

[ThinkerX]

2 hours ago, mcbigski said:

OK, when I clicked on that link the headline was changed from the text in your hyper link.  Currently says "Mayor Walks Back Statement Saying Every Person Arrested In Minneapolis Protests Was From Out Of State"  Who knows what it will say tomorrow.

I took a screen shot of the updated headline, can't post the capture here,  If you can't replicate it from the previous link, hit me up.  At least Forbes made what looks like something phrased as a retraction instead of just trying memory hole it.

But hold on, white supremacists are rioting over this, but were fine when a minority cop shot up a white Canadian woman a couple years back in Minnesota without any justifiable cause?  That makes not a whole lot of sense.  Could someone explain why this would be a riot trigger for white supremacists?  (I guess if you think Putin wanted Trump over Hillary it makes perfect sense to follow that narrative, but it looks to me like stage 2 underpants gnome territory.)

Let's see what the story is a week and a month from now.

I read, linked to, and quoted what seemed to be a legit news story from a legit outlet.  Something weird is going on.

 

I'm starting to wonder - just who are these 'outside agitators' causing massive damage and inciting violence?

 

They appear to come prepared - dark clothing, weapons of sorts, even gas masks.  They're organized.  They seem camera shy.

 

ANTIFA?  My understanding is that bunch lacks this degree of organization, and their violence tends to be defensively oriented.  There may be exceptions...but...

 

Black Block or whatever they're calling themselves now?  A violently inclined anarchist group, somewhat organized, that broke a bunch of windows back in the day...but are they even around anymore?  (I'd thought them mostly a west coast thing)

 

White Supremacists of one stripe or another?  Problem here is these folks tend to be gun nuts.  If they were involved in large numbers, than at least some would be toting heat - and given their extreme hatred, probably attacking minorities among the 'legitimate' protesters.  

 

I'm almost starting to wonder if they're foreign operatives of some sort....except that's utterly ludicrous.

 

Maybe Trump or somebody connected with him is sponsoring these people - a sort of corps of agent provocateurs?  Also ludicrous.  Not to mention impossible to keep under wraps, especially with a blabbermouth like Trump.  

[Darth Richard II]

They’re cops:

[ThinkerX]

26 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

They’re cops:

that would be an awful lot of cops doing bad things

[Darth Richard II]

28 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

that would be an awful lot of cops doing bad things

No shit, 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, ThinkerX said:

ANTIFA?  My understanding is that bunch lacks this degree of organization, and their violence tends to be defensively oriented.  There may be exceptions...but...

 

Black Block or whatever they're calling themselves now?  A violently inclined anarchist group, somewhat organized, that broke a bunch of windows back in the day...but are they even around anymore?  (I'd thought them mostly a west coast thing)

A few things there.

First, I think the articifial seperation between Black Block and Antifa is a bit artificial. Usually there tends to be an overlap (I don't think you will find that many Block Activists, who do not identify as Antifa).

Organization. You overestimate the amount of organization required, or are underestimating the Antifa there. While it is true, that there's no centrally organized structure, with some big boss on top or something, that doesn't mean there's no organization at all.

Small anecdotal story from 14-15 years ago. I was at a football game. The visiting team has a massive problem with a right wing infestation of neo nazis in their fan scene (the visiting team was Chemnitz for those who are wondering). While they happily propagated their vile shit, very well knowing, that we have a rather left leaning fan scene, with quite a few people from our Ultra section also either being active in the Antifa scene, or at the very least having connections there. You can guess, how that turned out. A few phone calls from within the stadium. And well, I just give the account I read from one of the "mere football fans" from Chemnitz in his 40s-50s, who just had the misfortune that their follow supporters are scum.

We felt like, ok, this is not gonna end well, and that something was brewing. So we decided to go out half an hour early trying to somehow avoid getting caught in between, and find shelter in a nearby pub, have a beer and quietely leave town once things have calmed down. As we were about to leave the stadium, we could see some black clothed youths looking our way and putting their gum shields into their mouth, and covering their faces. So we figured, there was no way for us to sneak out, and we were forced to turn back and see this out with those bonehead of ours. [...]

The police dispatched a bigger number and their water cannons, they had prepared for that (not unlikely scenario), to ensure the busses with the visiting fans could depart. Of course the bus drew quite a few stones and suffered some damages (stones and windows don't mix). Anyway, I proceed with the account from above.

[...] This was one of the few times, I've actually feared for my life. And to be honest, we really asked for a proper beating there with those [expletive] stirring things up. And I don't think, I'll make that away trip again.

So you don't need a massive centrally organized structure to start a riot. All you need is, to know the right people, a reason and a phone.

But all this talk about the Antifa or the Black Block is a mere distraction of what seems to be happening right now. This is primarily a black protest, who were sick of the continued police killing of young black men, the institutionalized racism covering it up, enhanced by the racist in chief in the White House. Are antifa activists involved in the protests? I'd be surprised/disappointed if not.

[GrimTuesday]

25 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

that would be an awful lot of cops doing bad things

Not really, it only takes a few people to start a riot. What is it they say about a mob, it's got an IQ of the smartest person divided by the number of people?

I don't think that it is foreigners, maybe it is just the arrogance of hegemony, but it seems almost inconceivable that anyone but the US could do this to us. Also I don't think it is possible for any intelligence agency to mobilize fast enough to for this to be anything from outside. These protests have sprung up organically, in a myriad of different parts of the country. If this were only happening in one or two cities and had been going on for a while already, I would be suspicious, but I think it takes longer for outside agents to glom onto a crisis.

As you said, ANTIFA, for all the shit that the Right throws at them, are not a entity so much as a reaction to fascist action. We do sometimes see property damage at Antifa counter protest, but for the most part it is locals telling outsiders to get the hell out of their communities.

My money is either Cops, or right wing accelerationist groups like the whole Boogaloo thing. Cops make sense because seeing protestors destroying property discredits them, allowing cops to justify their continued escalation of force. It also gives them an argument as to why the militarization of the police is necessary. Right wing groups have becoming increasingly emboldened during the Trump presidency, and I think they see an opportunity to really rev up the racist sentiment that legitimizes their dreams of a holy race war. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

1 hour ago, ThinkerX said:

Black Block or whatever they're calling themselves now?  A violently inclined anarchist group, somewhat organized, that broke a bunch of windows back in the day...but are they even around anymore?  (I'd thought them mostly a west coast thing)

Black Block is global, and yes it's still very active including the ongoing Hong Kong resistance of mainland China's bullshit.

[Fez]

The new ABC/WaPo national poll is real strong for Biden at +10; Biden 53%, 43%. The last day of polling was Thursday, so this gives us a good baseline for any backlash to the protests.

Of course, it could also just be an outlier, but the high quality national polls have all been strong for Biden. About a week ago there was the +8 Fox poll and earlier in May the +11 Q-poll.

Biden gave a new statement a bit after midnight. This time still acknowledging the need for protests, but asking that people refrain from violence.

[Fragile Bird]

Holy smokes, you should see this interview on CNN with Robert O'Brien, National Security Adviser. Trump's tweet about when the looting starts, the shooting starts, and about ominous weapons and vicious dogs, were may to calm tensions down. And there's no systemic racism in the police, just a few bad apples.

He also blames the riots and fire on the far left and Antifa, coming out of Portland and Seattle. Just burn down the state of Washington and their Democrat governor, right? That'll fix everything.

[dbergkvist]

6 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

But all this talk about the Antifa or the Black Block is a mere distraction of what seems to be happening right now. This is primarily a black protest, who were sick of the continued police killing of young black men, the institutionalized racism covering it up, enhanced by the racist in chief in the White House. Are antifa activists involved in the protests? I'd be surprised/disappointed if not.

But the question isn't why people are angry, but why this leads to violence and burning against non cops. And here you basically have two options:

1. The violence and looting is the result of cop/antifa/white supremacist infiltrators, or

2. The protestors are idiots who are unable to distinguish between police violence and a store selling stuff.

And of those two choices, I prefer it if people conclude that it's option 1. I would much rather that people get suspicious of "boogaloo boys" than of black people in general.

[Fragile Bird]

Oh my, and now it's "the corrupt WHO". The US isn't going to funnel money through the corrupt WHO anymore, no sirree.

And the WHO has been bungling things for decades, just like they bungled HIV and AIDs. Huh? Re-write history much?

Holy shit, this is your National Security Adviser?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

18 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

Time to start a new thread.

Seems a great many of the violently inclined protesters, at least in the Saint Paul area, came from out of state.  At least some appear to have connections with white supremacist groups.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/05/30/every-person-arrested-in-saint-paul-last-night-was-from-out-of-state-mayor-says/?fbclid=IwAR1M5UxAQ7dOnvoWT3R7rB9ZP8ErvZopeQrOKGiO2CreczanR4sNYqR7il4#77f29ca8264d

 

 

 

I saw this article last night about about “Buggaloo” believers trying to start trouble because they believe it is inevitable anyway.  There is a photo of guys in Hawaiian shirts at protests on the SC Statehouse grounds that turned violent:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-far-protesters-wearing-hawaiian-202343456.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3JDMVRFcUFOTmVGVXNBWHpiUXRETUQ7X3lsdT1YM29ETVRFeVltUXpZemczQkdOdmJHOERZbVl4QkhCdmN3TXhCSFowYVdRRFFqazJOVEZmTVFSelpXTURjM0ktL1JWPTIvUkU9MTU5MDkxNTI0Mi9STz0xMC9SVT1odHRwcyUzYSUyZiUyZnVrLm5ld3MueWFob28uY29tJTJmd2h5LWZhci1wcm90ZXN0ZXJzLXdlYXJpbmctaGF3YWlpYW4tMjAyMzQzNDU2Lmh0bWwvUks9Mi9SUz1YeFpRX2JtMHhWSGx2VHBfZzJHemxfNU9iYXct&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABsp5-8sk2JAZufHZb4vfXrhRPbGT_wOWDoLhky1S3Br-H4chSH7d4miunEZMuL2-gQEakRb9j5VaKPUAX19rido4KlH1I2Falr0JvAZjyKAN0p_REj0dMm2BPQqpOxzg6IHMS9Fx3xrxsNP5KV0D_aAU1seoksmDN1gSzmucdfM

[Ormond]

5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Oh my, and now it's "the corrupt WHO". The US isn't going to funnel money through the corrupt WHO anymore, no sirree.

And the WHO has been bungling things for decades, just like they bungled HIV and AIDs. Huh? Re-write history much?

Holy shit, this is your National Security Adviser?

The National Security Advisor is a position appointed by the President to be his personal advisor and does NOT require Senate confirmation. So why should anyone be surprised someone appointed by Trump and solely beholden to him is spouting off idiocy?