UK Politics - Put your mask in the bin and hug your granny

[mormont]

I don't recall saying that there was no indication the Plymouth shooter was trying to bring about any societal change.

[Spockydog]

Eye witnesses claim it was Neil Oliver who led the charge, astride an oiled-up, increasingly confused-looking Laurence Fox. Both were bare-chested and kilted, smeared in woad. Allegedly.

 

[williamjm]

45 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

 

I would suggest someone should point out that not on does the Magna Carta not mean what they think it does, it was also an English law not relevant to Scotland, but I think we'd be wasting our breath trying to explain anything to them.

[BigFatCoward]

Fantastic images of the tories sat shoulder to shoulder in the commons and not a single one was wearing a mask. 

[Heartofice]

5 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Fantastic images of the tories sat shoulder to shoulder in the commons and not a single one was wearing a mask. 

How many are double jabbed?

[Spockydog]

What has that got to do with anything? Or are you claiming to be unaware that being fully vaccinated does not prevent either asymptomatic infection, or transmission? 

 

[Heartofice]

5 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

What has that got to do with anything? Or are you claiming to be unaware that being fully vaccinated does not prevent either asymptomatic infection, or transmission? 

 

It would raise the question as to when will it be acceptable to stop wearing masks 

[Spockydog]

This is called living with the disease, which is what you lot keep calling for. 

Unfortunately, that does not mean pretending it does not fucking exist. 

[BigFatCoward]

39 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

How many are double jabbed?

Right wing morons and covid sceptics tend to be more reluctant so probably not all. 

[BigFatCoward]

26 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It would raise the question as to when will it be acceptable to stop wearing masks 

As 100 people a day are still dying of it and the activity they were doing can be done perfectly well with a mask I'd say not yet. 

[Heartofice]

34 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

As 100 people a day are still dying of it and the activity they were doing can be done perfectly well with a mask I'd say not yet. 

Ok so what would be an acceptable level of deaths per week? What if I told you flu deaths are currently 10x as high as covid deaths. 

 

[ljkeane]

30 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What if I told you flu deaths are currently 10x as high as covid deaths.

I would be pretty dubious about that claim since it would mean over 6500 flu deaths a week and a bad flu year usually has around 30,000 deaths a year.

If we are in fact experiencing that kind of flu outbreak in August I'd suggest that should be a serious concern and we should probably introduce some measures to mitigate the spread of the disease. Wearing masks and practicing social distancing when possible seems like it would be a good start.

[BigFatCoward]

40 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Ok so what would be an acceptable level of deaths per week? What if I told you flu deaths are currently 10x as high as covid deaths. 

 

I'd say you were lying. Unless there has been a huge surge in flu deaths that massively outstripped the rise in covid deaths in the last few weeks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9879763/amp/Covid-killed-people-England-Wales-flu-pneumonia-final-week-July.html

[A Horse Named Stranger]

22 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Eye witnesses claim it was Neil Oliver who led the charge, astride an oiled-up, increasingly confused-looking Laurence Fox. Both were bare-chested and kilted, smeared in woad. Allegedly.

 

I must say, I find Britain's response to the Qanon Shamen lacklustre. From Dancing With Wolf, to Laurence Fox in a kilt. Probably wasn't even a real kilt, but rather the skirt from a school girl uniform he ordered online.

[Maltaran]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Fantastic images of the tories sat shoulder to shoulder in the commons and not a single one was wearing a mask. 

 

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

How many are double jabbed?

Kind of irrelevant when their own government is recommending that people should continue to wear masks in crowded indoor spaces

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Ok so what would be an acceptable level of deaths per week? What if I told you flu deaths are currently 10x as high as covid deaths. 

 

I'd say you were spreading dangerous misinformation, and request the source for your claim.

I would counter with my own source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

 

ONS only publishes data for influenza and pneumonia together, so that's the best we've got for the 'flu death rate. But I'm happy to allow that as an understandable misunderstanding of the data.

 

On the week ending August 6th (latest figures released): influenza and pneumonia combined caused the deaths of 269 people in England and Wales. Covid caused the deaths of 473 people. NB: 473 is a larger number than 269, and not even close to being one tenth of 269.

Week ending July 30th gives 316 for influenza and pneumonia combined, to 348 for Covid.

Go back another week to that ending July 23rd, and influenza and pneumonia combined killed 284, compared to 277 for Covid - so more, but not by an order of magnitude, and certainly not for influenza alone.

The biggest difference in "favour" of influenza+pneumonia that I've  noticed this year, is the week ending June 11th, with 292 deaths compared to 66 for Covid, or approximately 4.5 times as many, which is less than half the increase claimed (and is for multiple ICD-10 codes, not just 'flu)

 

NB: figures above are for England and Wales, so discount Scotland & N.Ireland. Unless there's a serious claim that they would increase the 'flu deaths by 20-fold, I can't be bothered to hunt for those figures, sorry.

 

So once I've said that you were spreading dangerous misinformation (and requested your source), and provided the evidence of such, I'd be very, very suspicious of the motive behind it (which I'm not saying is deliberate on your behalf, but someone somewhere planted the idea in your head, and there was a motive there)

[Heartofice]

Lol, ok have to hold my hands up and say I was looking at the stats for ‘deaths with disease mentioned on death certificates’ rather than cause of death. Fair enough. 
 

Though being accused of spreading misinformation by Which Tyler is the height of irony. 
 

Putting Covid deaths next to flu deaths should give people some perspective however. Either way it’s not clear what level of Covid deaths are acceptable to people, and at what point they feel like we can get back to normal. Doesn’t sound like anyone knows. 

[lessthanluke]

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Lol, ok have to hold my hands up and say I was looking at the stats for ‘deaths with disease mentioned on death certificates’ rather than cause of death. Fair enough. 
 

Though being accused of spreading misinformation by Which Tyler is the height of irony. 
 

Putting Covid deaths next to flu deaths should give people some perspective however. Either way it’s not clear what level of Covid deaths are acceptable to people, and at what point they feel like we can get back to normal. Doesn’t sound like anyone knows. 

In what way are we not back to normal?

Went to watch a show last week that had 6,000 people in attendance, then went to the pub after it. 

[Which Tyler]

16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Lol, ok have to hold my hands up and say I was looking at the stats for ‘deaths with disease mentioned on death certificates’ rather than cause of death. Fair enough.

Then you'd still be wrong this side of June 25th - not quite "current".

 

Nice ad hominim, feel free to pont out any dangerous misinformation I've spread though - I'm always happy to learn, and to put my hands up when I've made an honest mistake.

[The Anti-Targ]

3 hours ago, ljkeane said:

I would be pretty dubious about that claim since it would mean over 6500 flu deaths a week and a bad flu year usually has around 30,000 deaths a year.

If we are in fact experiencing that kind of flu outbreak in August I'd suggest that should be a serious concern and we should probably introduce some measures to mitigate the spread of the disease. Wearing masks and practicing social distancing when possible seems like it would be a good start.

According to one publication it is only "up to 25,000" deaths per year. So you are even being overly generous by saying "usually around 30,000". Let's go with 25K/year. That translates to 68 deaths per day on average in a bad 'flu year. But that is only an average. Daily deaths from flu in Summer should be way below that and way above that in winter. So I would think if COVID deaths per day drop below 30 in summer and are less than 120 in winter one might argue that the disease is now not as bad as 'flu, in a bad year, so I guess one could then argue that special measures to stop COVID are not really justified. Though I would say if countries took special measures every winter (masks at least, maybe also people rostered to work from home in jobs that can facilitate this to decrease numbers in office spaces) then that would decrease both 'flu and COVID (now that it is pretty much endemic) deaths. And for very little cost or inconvenience individually and zero cost to the economy it could save a few thousand lives per year.

I see the UK has had 4 consecutive weeks were the weekly peak has increased over the previous week. It's nothing close to exponential, but it is going in the wrong direction, in summer, before(?) school has resumed, and if left to its own devices could be a warning of a major winter wave to come.