Padraig Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 hours ago, rotting sea cow said: What is however concerning is that first lab studies are showing that Omicron infection provides decent protection against other variants, but not so much against Omicron, making re-infections likely. Ouch. That sounds very unusual. Especially if the main Omicron doesn't provide much protection against BA.2? Nobody needs a major BA.2 wave (even if it isn't any more severe). Although, Denmark may finally have peaked. Maybe. Israel's wave was even crazier but I don't think it was BA.2. So maybe they were just better at capturing cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Thread regarding post-infection immunity. Still need more direct evidence - though the data seems to suggest it is not that effective or long lasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 https://www.yahoo.com/now/sweden-declines-recommend-vaccinating-kids-171739126.html Quote Sweden’s government has declined to recommend vaccinating children under 12 years old for COVID-19 after determining there would be little medical benefit for doing so. The Public Health Agency of Sweden said in a press release Thursday that the medical benefit for an individual child aged 5-11 who has received a general vaccination against COVID-19 "is currently small," and that while the situation is being "constantly" assessed, it has decided against recommending a general vaccination of children under 12 years for the spring term of 2022. "With the knowledge we have today, with a low risk for serious disease for kids, we don't see any clear benefit with vaccinating them," Health Agency official Britta Bjorkholm said during a news conference Quote "A general vaccination from the age of 5 is also not expected to have any major effect on the spread of infection at present, neither in the group of children aged 5–11 nor among other groups in the population," the release said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 44 minutes ago, Week said: Thread regarding post-infection immunity. Still need more direct evidence - though the data seems to suggest it is not that effective or long lasting. All the data I've seen indicate that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than vaccines and of course, far riskier, both individually and socially. More or less the consensus seem to be like: 2 doses < infection < 3 doses < 2 doses + infection (hybrid immunity). Now, Omicron has changed the game, because of the large number of reinfections and breakthrough cases. Having three vaccines is like tossing a coin in terms of protection against the infection, but it's still something like 95% protection against hospitalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 2 hours ago, rotting sea cow said: All the data I've seen indicate that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than vaccines and of course, far riskier, both individually and socially. More or less the consensus seem to be like: 2 doses < infection < 3 doses < 2 doses + infection (hybrid immunity). Now, Omicron has changed the game, because of the large number of reinfections and breakthrough cases. Having three vaccines is like tossing a coin in terms of protection against the infection, but it's still something like 95% protection against hospitalization. Correct, I've seen the same. Those facts don't entirely line up to the data coming out of the US - there's something that we're missing or maybe it's omicron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Week said: Correct, I've seen the same. Those facts don't entirely line up to the data coming out of the US - there's something that we're missing or maybe it's omicron. US unfortunately has very subpar reporting and data collection in comparison to most developed countries, so it's hard to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 BTW, this story is crazy In some cases, having received a COVID vaccine might result in a positive syphilis test! Quote The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is alerting clinical laboratory staff and health care providers that false reactivity, or "false-positive", Rapid Plasma Reagin (RPR; non-treponemal) test results, when using the Bio-Rad Laboratories BioPlex 2200 Syphilis Total & RPR kit, can occur in some people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. Based on information provided by the manufacturer, Bio-Rad Laboratories, RPR false reactivity was observed in some individuals for at least five months following a COVID-19 vaccination. More research is underway to determine the extent of the issue. It is not known if other RPR tests may be affected similarly. Treponemal testing for syphilis such as Treponema pallidum particle agglutination (TP-PA) and treponemal immunoassays do not appear to be impacted by this issue. Health care providers should make patients who received a reactive RPR result using the Bio-Rad BioPlex 2200 Syphilis Total & RPR test kit aware that they may need to be retested for syphilis with another test to confirm results. COVID-19 vaccines do not cause syphilis. Health care providers should continue to strongly encourage patients to get vaccinated against COVID-19 and be aware of their patients’ vaccination status when interpreting reactive RPR test results. https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/letters-health-care-providers/possible-false-rpr-reactivity-bioplex-2200-syphilis-total-rpr-test-kit-following-covid-19-vaccine Again. COVID vaccines DO NOT cause syphilis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said: US unfortunately has very subpar reporting and data collection in comparison to most developed countries, so it's hard to tell. How good are the numbers really though? France seems to be the only country I read about that tries to discover fake vaccinations systematically. With widespread green passport systems like in Europe there are fewer reasons to fake vaccinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said: How good are the numbers really though? France seems to be the only country I read about that tries to discover fake vaccinations systematically. With widespread green passport systems like in Europe there are fewer reasons to fake vaccinations. I don't think it;s the only problem or even a major one. It's the whole data collection regarding who is getting infected, with what, what it's their health and immunization status, etc. For example, the CDC decided only the track vaccine breakthrough cases that led to hospitalizations. They hardly track infections and thus they don't know reinfections rates. There was even in the news that they don't know with any level of precision how many people have been vaccinated, because people receiving doses in different states are counted like two first doses. Similar things happened early with the boosters with many of them counted as first doses. So, it's a huge mess, that makes hard to draw conclusions. There is good OPed by E. Topol partly about these problems. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abo1074 Yes, it's not the only country with these issues, but compared to many, the information from US is subpar, which is why many scientists await eagerly the data coming from UK, which has probably the best. Denmark and Israel also have good data collection systems, but their demographics might not be comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impmk2 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 11 hours ago, rotting sea cow said: Well, 1.3x is not that much and founding effects can explain the late coming. Yes, I seen the same statements. BA.2 is not more immune evading than BA.1, so infectiousness should explain the take over. There is the slightest sign of rising cases in S. Africa again. There is no yet word on severity but no reason to suspect (yet) of increased one. What is however concerning is that first lab studies are showing that Omicron infection provides decent protection against other variants, but not so much against Omicron, making re-infections likely. It might be signature of immune imprinting. It might be something else. I don't think 1.3x is insignificant. That's a wuhan -> alpha type jump. But yeah. There may be other factors. I would be careful with some of the more sensationalist interpretation of these studies on twitter. There's a recent preprint that's being shared* - it wasn't studying omicron reinfection risk. Yes it was showing a lower immune response (when compared to Delta) associated with less severe disease. But the authors were concerned that this may lead to poorer protection from future variants rather than to Omicron itself. In any case - a study has also shown a far higher omicron specific response in the vaccinated vs unvaccinated (recent Sigal lab preprint). So tbh I'd be more worried about the largely unvaccinated populations. Reinfection in younger kids (who generally have less severe disease anyway) may be more of an issue in keeping the waves under control. *it's a really confusing paper to read. Imo it needs some work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Northman Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 4 hours ago, Week said: Correct, I've seen the same. Those facts don't entirely line up to the data coming out of the US - there's something that we're missing or maybe it's omicron. Unlike most other countries, even those with low vaccine intakes, there's a lot of elder US people who are unvaccinated. In some places, the % of unvaxxed is fairly similar, whatever age range you pick. When even in low vax rate countries the elderly are vastly overrepresented among the vaccinated ones. So the share of vulnerable people with no immunity at all is bigger in the US, and even a lower fatality rate with Omicron will cause a bigger spike in ICU stays and deaths than any other country with barely 60% vaccinated population. Though that spike is really big, Delta might still linger in a few states, being replaced only now by Omicron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padraig Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 2 hours ago, rotting sea cow said: There was even in the news that they don't know with any level of precision how many people have been vaccinated, because people receiving doses in different states are counted like two first doses. That explains a lot. Reportedly, 75% of the total US population has had one vaccination, which is ok. Still at the low end but it would be fine. But, only 64% are "fully" vaccinated, which is a massive drop. And an absurb 26% have been boosted. Clearly the 75% figure is too high and counts second doses and boosters. The EU gap between 1 dose and fully vaccinated is 3% points. So, in the US, probably 70% have actually been given one dose, 67% fully vaccinated and 28% have been boosted. 1 hour ago, Clueless Northman said: Though that spike is really big, Delta might still linger in a few states, being replaced only now by Omicron? Possibly. It's fatality rate is not that different from some Eastern European countries, which have even worse vaccination rates. For example, right now, Hungary and the US have similar vaccination and fatality rates. Italy still has the strangest environment right now. Decent vaccination rate but a lot of people are dying. Could be delayed Delta effect. Or a lot of infection immunity from its first massive wave completely dissipated. 7 hours ago, Gorn said: https://www.yahoo.com/now/sweden-declines-recommend-vaccinating-kids-171739126.html Not too surprising I think. Once Omicron ends up being less fatal, the case for vaccination of kids does change a little. But most countries did choose vaccination. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/mercks-covid-pill-is-last-choice-us-patients-global-use-varies-2022-01-31/ Pfizer's anti viral getting a lot of love over Merck. We'll see what in the field performance shows. Pfizer does seem strong on face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 "To mandate or not to mandate? All eyes are on Austria as vaccination requirement for all adults comes into force." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/31/austria-vaccine-mandate-coronavirus/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Zorral said: "To mandate or not to mandate? All eyes are on Austria as vaccination requirement for all adults comes into force." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/31/austria-vaccine-mandate-coronavirus/ Well it comes into force de jure. De facto it looks dead in the water as the police union already said that they have no interest in enforcing it and as they have said the same about other COVID-19 rules and refused to do more than the absolute minimum. I'm not holding my breath. I expect a 3rd "everything is over" summer followed by a completely unexpected infection wave in fall at this point. Hopefully I'm wrong but to be honest in a way I'm past caring. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 When police are driven by ideology rather than their duty to enforce the law and ensure public safety. Better off hiring private security companies and have a watertight contractual agreement of both legal empowerment to enforce and agreement to enforce. And defund the police, since you need fewer of them to do the jobs the security companies are picking up the slack on. Now that's a slippery slope towards private police forces. Got my booster today. Interestingly, a big difference between my first two shots and this one is the amount of time the vaccinator spent talking about myocarditis. It wasn't mentioned once my first 2 goes around, but it probably took up more than 50% pf the pre-jab spiel. It's a near negligible risk for my age demographic, but I guess they have to give the same information to everyone. Curiously there is some evidence, IIRC, that accidental intravenous injection is more likely to cause myocarditis than proper IM injection, yet my jabber did not take the half second necessary to aspirate before pushing the plunger. So, possibly one of the main avoidable risk factors was not undertaken despite at least a 1 minute scripted talk about myocarditis. No metallic taste immediately after the jab, no bruise, no blood from the needle hole and no haematoma, so I am reasonably confident the vaccine when into the muscle as intended. 126 community cases today, 203 including border quarantine. That's the first time we've had over 200 since the delta wave peak in November. Modellers are predicting 400 cases per day by the end of the week. Our current all time max is ~225 during that delta wave at the end of last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 They tested calling unvaccinated risk patients who tested positive to offer them Sotrovimab(monoclonal treatment that works for omicron). As the people doing the calls got insulted on a regular basis they stopped doing that and now they send them a letter which they will probably receive once it is too late for that treatment to make a difference. I got to respect that they keep trying to help the anti-vaxxers but I'm not sure if it is not bad for the mental health of many people in the field. At least with letters nobody needs to get insulted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Some patients refusing to vaccinate are getting kicked off organ donor lists. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hospitals-deny-organ-transplants-unvaccinated_n_61f8a515e4b067cbfa21373e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 Some numbers I found interesting. 1400k people got a letter with a booked vaccination appointment last fall here in Austria. 4,3 % of them got vaccinated. I guess even the optimists can finally forget the idea that people don't get vaccinated because they don't know how. It was always an idea that few people expected to work and a colossal waste of resources (for Austria). Some of our states tried sending letters with appointments earlier than this. In one of those states 0,6% of the recipients got vaccinated. Lol. I guess we are not Portugal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: Better off hiring private security companies and have a watertight contractual agreement of both legal empowerment to enforce and agreement to enforce. And defund the police, since you need fewer of them to do the jobs the security companies are picking up the slack on. Now that's a slippery slope towards private police forces. You know the common argument against defunding the police is it will lead to less qualified people joining up or staying on. But here in the case of police officers shirking their duty due to being infested with far-right degenerates, I don’t see better alternatives than the solution you propose. If the police desire more money they could decide to actually do their job and enforce the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said: 1400k people got a letter with a booked vaccination appointment last fall here in Austria. 4,3 % of them got vaccinated. 4.3% sounds...pretty decent. By my math that's over 60k people vaccinated that wouldn't be otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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