Mlle. Zabzie Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: This is why you're a bad liberal influence on @Chataya de Fleury. Exactly. Don't worry, I'm still all the rest of y'all's weird conservative tax lawyer friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Duh! I just realized that with SARS-CoV-2 infecting many animals, we will be most likely unable to ever find the original source of the virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame deVenoge Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 18 hours ago, mcbigski said: I caved tonight and showed my vaccination card for the first time today. I feel dirty, and unfree. Some random guy working the gate at a college basketball game has zero right to my health info in a reasonable world. But I wanted spend some time with a friend so I didn't blow up about it. That being said, apparently the show your papers is a Uconn thing and not a city of Hartford thing. And, yet, you were definitely on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 27 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said: And, yet, you were definitely on Facebook Still is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 If you don't want some random to know your vax status, which they will forget 5 minutes later, then don't attend events where you have to reveal it. I mean some people have stuck to their principles to the extent of ending their decades long careers (including doctors, dentists and teachers) rather than get vaccinated*, some have even died** because of their steadfast refusal to vaccinate. Not attending a sporting event to keep your vax status private seems like a very small sacrifice to take a principled stand. *I don't respect being so irrationally opposed to vaccination, but I respect that people are willing to make considerable personal sacrifices for what they believe. **as a statistical probability, i.e. they were more likely to die from COVID unvaccinated, but even vaccinated they might have died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said: And, yet, you were definitely on Facebook Yup, I've clearly gotten to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Anti-vaccine mandate convoy in our capital is no longer a protest (if it ever was) and is now just an angry mob. Report of one teenager having an egg thrown at him because he was wearing a mask as he walked past, and another report of someone being punched in the face while having a conversation with one of the mobsters. There have been some arrests, and people have been trespassed from parliament grounds for pitching their tents and staying overnight. parliament grounds are a public space, but it is not a camping ground. Seems like the most draconian parking wardens in the country have been holding off issuing parking tickets for the last few days, but they have finally started doing so. Honestly, enforcement authorities have gone far too soft on people for actual violation of laws / by-laws. I can understand not wanting to be too heavy-handed to avoid a narrative of suppression being created. But 3 days in and unlawful activity being clear and evident, it's time to break the whole thing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: Anti-vaccine mandate convoy in our capital is no longer a protest (if it ever was) and is now just an angry mob. Report of one teenager having an egg thrown at him because he was wearing a mask as he walked past, and another report of someone being punched in the face while having a conversation with one of the mobsters. There have been some arrests, and people have been trespassed from parliament grounds for pitching their tents and staying overnight. parliament grounds are a public space, but it is not a camping ground. Seems like the most draconian parking wardens in the country have been holding off issuing parking tickets for the last few days, but they have finally started doing so. Honestly, enforcement authorities have gone far too soft on people for actual violation of laws / by-laws. I can understand not wanting to be too heavy-handed to avoid a narrative of suppression being created. But 3 days in and unlawful activity being clear and evident, it's time to break the whole thing up. It has one good thing at least here. A lot of people who usually ignored the topic have realized now that the police has a political agenda and doing more than they absolutely need to against the far right is not part of it. The narrative that boosted people should just get infected is getting stronger here and has hit the front page of most news sites. I really hope the optimists are right and we are not just breeding the next variant by giving the virus as many hosts as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Luzifer's right hand said: It has one good thing at least here. A lot of people who usually ignored the topic have realized now that the police has a political agenda and doing more than they absolutely need to against the far right is not part of it. The narrative that boosted people should just get infected is getting stronger here and has hit the front page of most news sites. I really hope the optimists are right and we are not just breeding the next variant by giving the virus as many hosts as possible. We're doing exactly that, unless an animal species beats us to it. The only question is whether it will be something worse or better than omicron. Same infectivity and severity as omicron but better at immune escape would be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said: The narrative that boosted people should just get infected is getting stronger here and has hit the front page of most news sites. I really hope the optimists are right and we are not just breeding the next variant by giving the virus as many hosts as possible. I think there is a misunderstanding regarding the meaning of "breeding the next variant". We discussed it a bit with @Impmk2 the differences between antigenic drift vs antigenic shift. The former is the natural evolution of the virus, a whack-a-mole game between the immune system and the virus. This process is observed in all endemic respiratory viruses and at some point the drift is large enough that vaccines need to be updated. There is little that we can do to stop that. A number of scientists worry that the virus will accumulate enough mutations that way to remain a big threat. I believe that concern is unwarranted because the evolution can go either way and the virus might well hit the Muller's ratchet (which is my pet conspiracy theory). Antigenic shift is what we call variants in the context of this pandemic, whole antigenic distinct "families" emerging from earlier branches with Omicron being an quite extreme case. This has made the pandemic quite unpredictable and certainly remains a threat as many animals are being infected with the virus increasing the risk of new spillovers. Similarly, with sky high infections the "wrong" individuals might get infected and breed new variants. Immuno compromised individuals are being the usual suspects. But to be honest, there is little we can do to full stop the Omicron infections and if we attempt it to do the cost will be too high, economical, political and social. These were the reasons for Denmark to lift all restrictions. There won't be a better time to get infected as most of the population is vaccinated and a good chunk of the most vulnerable has recent boosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 40 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said: I think there is a misunderstanding regarding the meaning of "breeding the next variant". We discussed it a bit with @Impmk2 the differences between antigenic drift vs antigenic shift. The former is the natural evolution of the virus, a whack-a-mole game between the immune system and the virus. This process is observed in all endemic respiratory viruses and at some point the drift is large enough that vaccines need to be updated. There is little that we can do to stop that. A number of scientists worry that the virus will accumulate enough mutations that way to remain a big threat. I believe that concern is unwarranted because the evolution can go either way and the virus might well hit the Muller's ratchet (which is my pet conspiracy theory). Antigenic shift is what we call variants in the context of this pandemic, whole antigenic distinct "families" emerging from earlier branches with Omicron being an quite extreme case. This has made the pandemic quite unpredictable and certainly remains a threat as many animals are being infected with the virus increasing the risk of new spillovers. Similarly, with sky high infections the "wrong" individuals might get infected and breed new variants. Immuno compromised individuals are being the usual suspects. But to be honest, there is little we can do to full stop the Omicron infections and if we attempt it to do the cost will be too high, economical, political and social. These were the reasons for Denmark to lift all restrictions. There won't be a better time to get infected as most of the population is vaccinated and a good chunk of the most vulnerable has recent boosters. I noticed that the people in my life who work in jobs like healthcare and caretaking are burning out completely and only feel hate and anger when they see people doing things like apres ski. None of them have had Covid but a lot of their co-workers have and the fully vaccinated people that keep wearing masks diligently are the ones that can keep the systems running. What I see is that the damage to the people that actually do stuff that society needs is growing the more the people who are against measures succeed. I believe that many people that you want in these fields will leave if the appeasement of the party side of society continues (or have already left in case of one of my friends). Not a world worth living in that our governments are building I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 A naked protester was apparently pulled by the hair to remove her from the crowd. Sounds awful, but almost anywhere else the police try to touch a naked woman might well be the basis for an accusation of sexual assault. So damned either way perhaps. The ethics and procedure for dealing with naked people (esp, but not just women) subject to arrest who are trying to resist is quite a touchy subject I imagine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame deVenoge Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 16 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: ... The ethics and procedure for dealing with naked people (esp, but not just women) subject to arrest who are trying to resist is quite a touchy subject I imagine.... I see what you did, there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanluke Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 On 2/9/2022 at 11:38 PM, The Anti-Targ said: If you don't want some random to know your vax status, which they will forget 5 minutes later, then don't attend events where you have to reveal it. I mean some people have stuck to their principles to the extent of ending their decades long careers (including doctors, dentists and teachers) rather than get vaccinated*, some have even died** because of their steadfast refusal to vaccinate. Not attending a sporting event to keep your vax status private seems like a very small sacrifice to take a principled stand. *I don't respect being so irrationally opposed to vaccination, but I respect that people are willing to make considerable personal sacrifices for what they believe. **as a statistical probability, i.e. they were more likely to die from COVID unvaccinated, but even vaccinated they might have died. Yeah. I pretty much avoid everywhere I can that asks for vaccination status due to being opposed to vaccine passports. But I'm a hermit so its fairly easy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 On 2/9/2022 at 5:01 AM, mcbigski said: I caved tonight and showed my vaccination card for the first time today. I feel dirty, and unfree. Some random guy working the gate at a college basketball game has zero right to my health info in a reasonable world. But I wanted spend some time with a friend so I didn't blow up about it. That being said, apparently the show your papers is a Uconn thing and not a city of Hartford thing. I had already decided that I wasn't going to contribute to my alma mater after they paid Robin DiAngelo $20k plus to stoke racial hatred, but final nail. Plus Uconn football is like Jets the last 50 years without Sanchez and Ryan at least making the AFC finals. They should provide documents that hide any medical status. Perhaps some kind of traffic light app. Green means that person is safe among other people, yellow that the status is unclear and red that the person is in danger or a danger. This wouldn't provide any information about the vaccination status of the person. They could be also immun compromised or a sex offender. This app could even work dynamic, e.g if you are a progressive or vaccinated, the app would show red if you try to enter a Trump rally may be green if you visit an alternative energy exhibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 I'm on board with vax pass for a limited period and specific situations when it has an epidemiological benefit. Not so keen on a generalised app that tells people I'm persona non grata for undisclosed reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: I'm on board with vax pass for a limited period and specific situations when it has an epidemiological benefit. Not so keen on a generalised app that tells people I'm persona non grata for undisclosed reasons. I'd also be on board for a vax pass in certain situations. However I don't think that situation has ever arisen during the Covid crisis due to the nature of the virus and the vaccines themselves. I think we should accept that the main purpose of a vax pass is as a coercion tool "oh you want to go do fun stuff? you need to prove you are vaccinated". As an effective control to stop the spread of the virus its not a useful tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: Not so keen on a generalised app that tells people I'm persona non grata for undisclosed reasons. Pretty sure Black Mirror did an episode on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A wilding Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Heartofice said: I think we should accept that the main purpose of a vax pass is as a coercion tool "oh you want to go do fun stuff? you need to prove you are vaccinated". As an effective control to stop the spread of the virus its not a useful tool. I am currently visiting two UK care homes regularly. Since last December both have been following the government rule requiring you to prove your vaccination status before entry, either with the app or by showing a printed vaccination certificate. I would say that this rule is very likely helping to reduce the spread of the virus in care homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 22 minutes ago, A wilding said: I am currently visiting two UK care homes regularly. Since last December both have been following the government rule requiring you to prove your vaccination status before entry, either with the app or by showing a printed vaccination certificate. I would say that this rule is very likely helping to reduce the spread of the virus in care homes. Why? If vaccination is not a good indicator of your ability to spread the virus then why is it useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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