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Ukraine Part 5: war...it never changes


Kalnestk Oblast
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So with the nuclear plant fiasco, what are the odds of more direct NATO involvement by this time next week...?

Depends on whether it's a deliberate strategy by Putin to escalate things. 

Edited by Spockydog
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14 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

So with the nuclear plant fiasco, what are the odds of more direct NATO involvement by this time next week...?

Firm warnings, I'm sure, which Putin won't give two geriatric fucks about. 

NATO will get involved soon. It can't go on. I don't know what kind of a timetable, but the EU and NATO [if they haven't already] will be discussing it shortly. 

Edited by JEORDHl
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58 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Which makes one wonder if they're carrying out orders or just randomly bombing shit.

50% chance of Putin is evil, and 50% chance of leaderless troops without useful guidance or suitable maps just shooting big stuff.

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6 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Trying to cut out the power that plant generates would've been a military objective. Sloppy and reckless op though. Just fucking... ugh

depending on just how accurate those tank shots are maybe they where actually aiming for the Administration building and not the reactors and just trying to scare the shit out of people to get them to surrender the power station and the other ones.  - This is a very charitable reading of what happened.    I suppose if they where ordered to target the plant aiming for a bit that is not going to cause radiation leaks is the sensible thing.

 

 

 

off topic - I am kind of surprised at how many Nuclear plants Ukraine has.  Even though modern plants are much much safer I would have thought Chernobyl would have made the population that much more wary and resistant to them than most populations in the world.

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34 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:
NATO will get involved soon. It can't go on. I don't know what kind of a timetable, but the EU and NATO [if they haven't already] will be discussing it shortly. 

I don't see how they can, nuclear war remains too big a threat.

Maybe the US does end up ignoring the law about not assassinating foreign leaders and the CIA sees if something is possible. But I just don't see how NATO can start a war with Russia.

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Yeah, the idea that a military would want to control and stop Europe's biggest electrical plant is not a particularly weird military task. They aren't bombing or shelling it either. They're clearly trying to control it.

That said, the hunt for red October had good advice for firing things around fissile materials that should at least be considered.

Edited by Kalibuster
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10 minutes ago, Fez said:

I don't see how they can, nuclear war remains too big a threat.

Maybe the US does end up ignoring the law about not assassinating foreign leaders and the CIA sees if something is possible. But I just don't see how NATO can start a war with Russia.

 

We've fucked up, bad, in the last few decades but I think, and I'm not saying I'm right, but, I think the world has gotten [or soon will] to a place where we just can't continue to watch this happen. Yeah, the Ukrainians didn't have a choice, but they're putting it all out there and even if this seems isolated, it's really not.

It's limited for now, but we're all at war already. 

You're all probably glad I'm no where near a place of influence on any of these events, but [though we're not there yet] I think we're getting close to the tip where we have to risk it for Ukraine, for our humanity, or what the fuck is the point.

 

Edited by JEORDHl
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6 minutes ago, Kalibuster said:

That said, the hunt for red October had good advice for firing things around fissile materials that should at least be considered.

:Sean Connery accent:”Some things in here… don’t react well to bullets.”:Sean Connery accent:

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20 minutes ago, Fez said:

I don't see how they can, nuclear war remains too big a threat.

Maybe the US does end up ignoring the law about not assassinating foreign leaders and the CIA sees if something is possible. But I just don't see how NATO can start a war with Russia.

Quoting Dr. Evil: "Riiiight"

How exactly is this a better scenario? Seems like it could make mid-June to early August in 1914 look like a crawl to war by comparison. 

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Quoting Dr. Evil: "Riiiight"

How exactly is this a better scenario? Seems like it could make mid-June to early August in 1914 look like a crawl to war by comparison. 

Because the alternative is every major city in North America and Western Europe getting wiped out, plus every city in Russia? And the rest of the world dealing with the aftermath of nuclear winter?

This seems less bad than that.

If Russia attacks NATO, that's the end of it. That's the line that can't be crossed and has always been publicly declared the line that can't be crossed. Changing your red lines in nuclear diplomacy puts the end of the world on you. 

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7 minutes ago, Fez said:

Because the alternative is every major city in North America and Western Europe getting wiped out, plus every city in Russia? And the rest of the world dealing with the aftermath of nuclear winter?

 

An alternative. 

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I think I'm sick of watching people get fucking churned like they're in a murder factory by military powers, no matter what nationality or color they are. And I think, if he doesn't back off soon we're going to have to risk it.  

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The International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nations' nuclear watchdog, tweeted that the nuclear power station fire had "not affected 'essential' equipment, plant personnel taking mitigatory actions."

U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm concurred with this assessment, tweeting after speaking with her Ukrainian counterpart: "The plant's reactors are protected by robust containment structures and reactors are being safely shut down."

A Ukrainian government official conc told AP "elevated levels of radiation are being detected near the site, but the IAEA tweeted that Ukraine's regulator told it "there has been no change reported" in radiation levels at the plant.

From an Axios post.  I think everyone needs to chill on this starting/escalating into a nuclear war.

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