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A Horse Named Stranger
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Blimey. First ever Premier League was wild. 22 teams, including Oldham Athletic. And a reminder that, back then, Norwich were one of the best teams in the country. :lol:

1. Man Utd

2. Aston Villa

3. Norwich City

4. Blackburn Rovers

5. QPR

6. Liverpool 

7. Sheffield Wednesday 

8. Tottenham 

9. Man City

10. Arsenal

11. Chelsea 

12. AFC Wimbledon 

13. Everton

14. Sheffield United 

15. Coventry 

16. Ipswich 

17. Leeds United 

18. Southampton 

19. Oldham Athletic 

20. Crystal Palace 

21. Middlesbrough 

22. Nottingham Forest

Edited by Spockydog
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3 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Yes. What you need to understand is that over here, today, a brand new club can spring up out of nowhere, then, over the course of time, climb up the ranks and make it into the Premier League.

Promotion/relegation is the process underpinning the romance of our game.

I under stand that and actually like the concept of relegation. There's just no way to introduce it here.

That said, relegation is the friction point as fans don't want to lose it, but new owners/investors don't want it for obvious reasons.

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All these crackpot ideas you are presenting wouldn't be so crackpot if we already had our football organized so that there is zero meritocracy, and absolutely zero jeopardy. But who the fuck wants that? Nobody over here, that's for sure. 

Correct: fans don't want it.

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Anyway, if you want to see how patently stupid the idea of enshrining the current top teams into a permanent Super League is, have a look at how the Top 4, or Top 6, or whatever you want to call it has evolved over time. Heh. If you want to have your mind blown, have a look at who was in the top division 30, 40, or even 50 years ago.

I have and yes there are a ton of random clubs I've never even heard of that were great back in the day. The real surprise to me was learning that in past decades different leagues were seen as the top dog. For a long time from afar I just assumed England always had the top league.

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4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Thats what we all like to think the premier league is like, but in reality there is the top 4, or top 6 and the only way to realistically challenge that oligarchy is by investing insulting amounts of money, usually by owning a small islamic state. 

But at least there's still the possibility of, say, a Norwich being bought by a rich owner, returning to the premier league and maybe even becoming a new Leicester.

That wouldn't be possible without the relegation / promotion system

The fact that Nottingham Forest, one of the most famous clubs in English football history, is back in the premier league after about 30 years in the wilderness is another example of the romance of the promotion / relegation and how important it is.

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26 minutes ago, Darryk said:

The fact that Nottingham Forest, one of the most famous clubs in English football history, is back in the premier league after about 30 years in the wilderness is another example of the romance of the promotion / relegation and how important it is.

Look up their owner's history if you want to have some fun.

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On 8/14/2022 at 1:46 PM, Iskaral Pust said:

Why is Chilwell so out of favor after being a key player prior to his injury?

I believe he tore his acl in December. Gotta figure he's still getting back to normal, despite being healthy enough to play. Cucurella isn't dealing with the same restraints. I will say it's lovely to see someone out there that isn't Marcos Alonso. So far impressed with Cucurella. 

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5 hours ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

I believe he tore his acl in December. Gotta figure he's still getting back to normal, despite being healthy enough to play. Cucurella isn't dealing with the same restraints. I will say it's lovely to see someone out there that isn't Marcos Alonso. So far impressed with Cucurella. 

Also Tuchel demands so much from his wingbacks physically, it would be very risky to only have Chilwell who was injured for so long in that position, that is of course assuming Alonso ever makes his move to Barca along with the 200 other players they have bought.

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17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And this is the real question: how long would fans resist? Obviously we know European fans aren't as complacent and accepting of this as Americans, but I think a lot of teams would bet on the fans coming back fairly soon and whatever loss of fandom would be overweighed by the increase in revenue. 

How attractive do you think a club would be to new foreign fans if a current set of fans turned their backs on the club?

That is something that's just not done in European (and Latin American, probably elsewhere too) sport. You can change your friends, you can change your wife, you can change your religion, but change a football club you support and you'll never hear the end of it and will never again be taken seriously by most of your surroundings.

17 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

It's nothing excessive or off putting, really, at least to me.

The guy whose company has the tv rights is the owner of Southampton, btw. 

Not anymore. A different company (heavily state-backed) has bought the TV rights starting from this season.

16 hours ago, Spockydog said:

No, it's not. The PL is nothing more than the top tier of English football, but with more money and better marketing. The structure and mechanisms are exactly the same as they've always been. You can get promoted to it, and relegated from it. There is literally nothing super about it. 

You do remember Stoke buying players Krkic from Barcelona (or was it from Milan) and Shaqiri from Bayern Munich?

There's still promotion/relegation in the PL, but there's much that's "super" about it.

16 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yes, obviously the fans played a massive roll, but do not underestimate how much the other 14 clubs stoked the anger because they knew they were getting cut out of a ton of revenue and they were also lobbying the government to step in.

And that’s all I’m getting at. Say they gave the 14 founding teams a three year exemption from relegation and then invited 6-10 more teams and did this while working politely with all the various leagues and organizations? Would the outrage have been the same?

The very concept of exemption from relegation is so foreign to European fans it's insane. You have it in basketball Euroleague to an extent with some clubs having a guaranteed spot while other spots are up for grabs, but it's a major point of conflict in European basketball and Euroleague is basically the only competition in Europe that makes serious money for clubs. That's not the case in football.

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48 minutes ago, baxus said:

Not anymore. A different company (heavily state-backed) has bought the TV rights starting from this season.

I didn't know. However, the arrangement seems similar to the previous one so far.

48 minutes ago, baxus said:

You do remember Stoke buying players Krkic from Barcelona (or was it from Milan) and Shaqiri from Bayern Munich?

Shaqiri was bought from Inter. But yeah, the point still stands.

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6 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

I didn't know. However, the arrangement seems similar to the previous one so far.

Yeah, up until this season PL matches were broadcast by Sport Klub channels which are part of United Media that is owned by Šolak, the guy who bought Southampton last season. Starting this season, Arena Sport are broadcasting it after paying 600M€ for 6 seasons, which were raised through some shady deals with national telco provider which is controlled by the government. When you consider the fact that Šolak's company also owns some news TV channels that are not bending over backwards to placate the government, an interesting pattern is starting to emerge.

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Keepy-up drill at London Colney. Players have to traverse the pitch without the ball touching the ground.

Nearly Every Single Arsenal Player: Oooh, this is pretty tough, no?

Zinchenko:lol:

 

Edited by Spockydog
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Ofc they are, they are desperate. But money alone is what motivates players at this level.

They are competitive beasts the whole lot of them. Casemiro is earning good money at Madrid. So I despair to think of the numbers United would need to throw around to get him moving away from a team in which is competing for the CL title, to, well, Manchester United 2022/23. Crazy money, probably wouldn'T even beging to cover. Not to mention moving from sunny Spain, to Northern England.

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8 minutes ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

Why would he leave Real for any other club? He regularly wins both league and CL there. 

Any why would you sign a 30 year old? Other than a very short term fix maybe? 

Well, it's not as though there is an abundance of top class DMs available. It's a risk but being 30 years old doesn't necessarily mean a player is finished – some players can still perform at a high level into their mid 30s.

Casemiro is also underpaid at Real Madrid. Reports are he gets around €200k/week. As you say, he's already won everything at club level so he might as well look to get a big pay day for his last big contract.

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