UK Politics: It's Time To Think The Unthinkable But This Lot Can't Even Think The Thinkable

[BigFatCoward]

8 hours ago, Spockydog said:

It takes a lot to admit you were wrong. To admit you were conned. To admit you were a useful idiot in the single biggest British Establishment cock-up since Suez.

And no matter how hard JRM and his ilk try to gaslight everyone, including probably themselves (see above), we can all see, with our own eyes and ears, what Brexit has done to this country.

The scary thing is, the worst is probably yet to come.

I kind of understand how some people had the wool pulled over their eyes in the lead up to the vote.

But if they are still convinced it was a good idea, they are nothing but a bunch of cretinous deluded cunts.

[mormont]

Illogical as it may seem at first glance, it's also wise to be aware that thinking Brexit was a mistake is not the same as wanting to reverse it. There's a significant number of voters who are willing to admit in hindsight that it was a mistake, but believe that reversing it would not be simple or easy, and just want to move on.

[James Arryn]

11 minutes ago, mormont said:

Illogical as it may seem at first glance, it's also wise to be aware that thinking Brexit was a mistake is not the same as wanting to reverse it. There's a significant number of voters who are willing to admit in hindsight that it was a mistake, but believe that reversing it would not be simple or easy, and just want to move on.

Didn’t the Savanta poll from a few weeks back show that support for a second referendum was up to 2/3 (65%) and the number of people opposed was down to like 22, 10% lower than it has ever been before?

[mormont]

5 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Didn’t the Savanta poll from a few weeks back show that support for a second referendum was up to 2/3 (65%) and the number of people opposed was down to like 22, 10% lower than it has ever been before?

Haven't seen that poll so can't comment. Just making the point that we shouldn't make assumptions that one belief leads to another.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Liz Truss making life hard for parody accounts

 

[James Arryn]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

Haven't seen that poll so can't comment. Just making the point that we shouldn't make assumptions that one belief leads to another.

Yeah, my understanding is that it had been that kinda odd dichotomy for quite a while but seems to be changing. I think a 2nd referendum and all that would involve was seen as too much of a headache even by many remainers, but with how disastrous the Cons have continued to be and in particular their attacks on the NHS, etc. people are kind of coming around to the realization that it’s going to be much worse than a headache either way. Importantly over 1/5 of previously staunch Brexiters now say it was a mistake AND support a 2nd referendum. 

Imo right now…could still change, of course…but the way things are going now I think a ~ return to the eu is more or less inevitable and the major obstacle from the UK side will be swallowing their pride, especially as the deal they’ll get will likely be a lot less favourable than the one they had. How long it takes to get there is another question, but I think it gets there eventually.
 

That point, if/when they get to talking numbers and it becomes clear that the UK’s status within the EU will be less than what it left, that might be a key moment for Brexit supporters to launch a campaign, trying to emphasize ‘our own bad deal > someone else’s bad deal’. And depending on what else is happening at that time, it could prove effective. What the Cons really ought to hope for is some popular foreign incident or smallish war; another Falklands would be ideal. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

4 hours ago, James Arryn said:

What the Cons really ought to hope for is some popular foreign incident or smallish war; another Falklands would be ideal. 

Why do you think Boris Johnson was so supportive of Ukraine when Russia first invaded?

It was a dead cat to throw on the table that, for a time, saved Johnson’s premiership due to the partygate scandal. 

[BigFatCoward]

From a popcorn point of view, I can't think of anything I want more than Truss trying to push herself back to the forefront of UK politics. 

[DanteGabriel]

20 hours ago, James Arryn said:

So, not trying to kick anyone when they’re down, just being sincere:

 

Wife and I were talking last night. Girls turn 3 in a couple weeks, makes you look at the world you’ve brought them into more. I know everyone everywhere has times where they feel like the world is going pear-shaped, but I know that even in the I.r. community it’s conceded that we have been in, as the curse goes, ‘interesting times’ for a while now, no end in sight, many of the issues likely to get worse before they get any better, and we were trying to decide when, for us, it began. Or at least we noticed it beginning. And separately we both arrived at the same moment: being in London for Brexit night.

 

I feel so much of that. I have always been cynical but fundamentally optimistic that the future would be a brighter thing, and 2016 changed that. Brexit obviously, but also seeing the Philippines elect a sociopathic thug like Duterte in May. Then, of course, Trump in November, and hearing one of our neighbors set off fireworks at 2 am on election night.

My thoughts started to resemble those of Rorschach from Watchmen and his "God was not there" speech. The ensuing years exposed how much America's culture and institutions in particular are based on people being rational and acting in good faith and how fundamentally naive that all turned out to be. Realization that political and cultural progress was not a given, and the last 70 years or so of liberal consensus in Western democracies may have just been a blip in the overall history of a benighted and easily manipulated species.

So yeah, not happy about the world my son will live in. There was already a thread about this and I said plenty there, so I won't dwell on it further here. Maybe our kids should form a mutual defense pact.

 

[Which Tyler]

34 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

From a popcorn point of view, I can't think of anything I want more than Truss trying to push herself back to the forefront of UK politics. 

Only on the condition that she fails

[Pebble thats Stubby]

4 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Only on the condition that she fails

oh she will always fail, even if she wins.

 

But it might not be too bad.  Lets assume she is not able to run until after the next election and lets assume the Tory's don't win that..  Sunak might quit immediately, and I doubt Boris wants the job of being an opposition leader.  he might start his next bid year 3 or 4 into Starmers PMship.  Ya know in time to campaign for the election but not in time to have to do work.  The Tories will need someone to be leader while they work out their future and someone who is not a treat and can be kicked out at a moments notice.

[polishgenius]

I'm almost impressed by the cheek of this headline. What the fuck do the Telegraph think they're gonna accomplish, though?

[BigFatCoward]

5 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Only on the condition that she fails

That is as close to a guarantee as anything in the history of the world. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

45 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I'm almost impressed by the cheek of this headline. What the fuck do the Telegraph think they're gonna accomplish, though?

“Great headline, Liz. But any chance you could blame everything on Meghan Markle?”

Given the choice between having the return of either Truss or the Black Death, Britain would pick Truss.

But only after some soul-searching.

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

I'm almost impressed by the cheek of this headline. What the fuck do the Telegraph think they're gonna accomplish, though?

 

[Spockydog]

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

https://archive.ph/cuiN3

Quote

Sunak Plans to Strengthen Anti-Protest Laws With Police Powers

 

[Raja]

Given the volume of complaints against Raab, shouldn't he be suspended until the investigation is over?

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 2/3/2023 at 3:27 PM, Spockydog said:

It takes a lot to admit you were wrong. To admit you were conned. To admit you were a useful idiot in the single biggest British Establishment cock-up since Suez.

I think maybe for some pointing to economic hardship wouldn’t show they were wrong or conned to support Brexit if their primary grievance was purely in regards to culture war nonesense, immigrants(particularly nonwhite ones) yucky and thus need to be stopped immediately. 

For them I’d point to the sky rocketing of non-European migrants into the country, something  that people kept telling leavers would happen because even the Tory leadership recognition immigration generally is a really big economic positive for a country.

On 2/3/2023 at 2:23 PM, karaddin said:

I wasn't in the UK for it, but I took pretty much the same view of it as you and was convinced Trump was going to win for the same reasons. 

Ah 2016 really was a good year for dumbass populists.

 

[Maltaran]

5 hours ago, Raja said:

Given the volume of complaints against Raab, shouldn't he be suspended until the investigation is over?

Yes, but Sunak won’t do anything unless he’s forced to