HBO Orders A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms: The Hedge Knight

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

I've always found the idea of adapting Dunk and Egg in live-action pretty impractical with all these casting difficulty cited above. I would have much prefered an animated adaptation in colorful style like the graphic novels. Plus in an animated format, we can finally have purple eyes Targaryen.

[Lord Varys]

I think three episodes per novella could work perfectly fine. That means they could include all dialogue and allow the scenes and scenery to breathe. It also strikes one as sensible to add some more details, say, start a couple of days earlier so the audience does get to know a healthy and kind Ser Arlan of Pennytree before he catches a cough and slowly dies.

I'd be tempted to include some scenes, perhaps in an epilogue, with King Daeron II, Queen Myriah, and Bloodraven at court. A great scene there could be to have a stricken Bloodraven with tears in his eyes visit the king and queen in their apartments to tell them that one of their sons killed another.

Sure enough, George likely already killed Myriah in childbirth in her fifth or sixth pregnancy (a stillborn daughter, most likely) but I'd really see her either die in the spring or even live into the reign of Aerys I (unlikely for the books since nobody ever mentioned that King Aerys' widowed mother was still at court) but never mind unwritten stuff.

It might also be sensible to include Blackfyre shenanigans (i.e. talk about the Rebellion and stuff) into THK episodes. Also, it might be interesting to enlarge the royal retinue to have Aerys, Rhaegel, their wives, and Aelor and Aelora be part of their party as well.

The purpose of Baelor's progress would then be a kind of show of force of the Targaryens through lands that were very much involved in the Blackfyre Rebellion.

If George hasn't changed the family tree again the Dondarrion connection to Baelor Breakspear via his wife Jena Dondarrion has to be mentioned.

Since the jump to TSS would be rather rigid I think they could and should include Dornish and Oldtown episodes with input from George and by sifting through the flashbacks in TSS. If they do that, they could also show rather than talk about the Great Spring Sickness in KL, i.e. show the deaths of Daeron II, Valarr, Matarys, the coronation of Aerys I and the rift between him and Maekar. That could also fit in well with Aerys actually being at Ashford because these two brothers might actually not get along all that well.

Between TSS and TMK there is no meaningful time jump nor great setting change, so things work out.

[Corvinus85]

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd be tempted to include some scenes, perhaps in an epilogue, with King Daeron II, Queen Myriah, and Bloodraven at court. A great scene there could be to have a stricken Bloodraven with tears in his eyes visit the king and queen in their apartments to tell them that one of their sons killed another.

All a thousand and one, or just the one real eye? 

[Lord Varys]

7 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

All a thousand and one, or just the one real eye? 

If George doesn't know if the eye socket is empty, includes some stone, has hair brushed over it, or is hidden behind a patch I can also forget that the guy lost one.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

24 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Sure enough, George likely already killed Myriah in childbirth in her fifth or sixth pregnancy (a stillborn daughter, most likely) but I'd really see her either die in the spring or even live into the reign of Aerys I (unlikely for the books since nobody ever mentioned that King Aerys' widowed mother was still at court) but never mind unwritten stuff.

That's pretty pesimistic to have her die in childbirth but unfortunatly quite on brand from GRRM. I'd like her to live up to Maekar's reign if Elaena can go on at court up until her seventies so should Myriah.

32 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It might also be sensible to include Blackfyre shenanigans (i.e. talk about the Rebellion and stuff) into THK episodes. Also, it might be interesting to enlarge the royal retinue to have Aerys, Rhaegel, their wives, and Aelor and Aelora be part of their party as well.

The purpose of Baelor's progress would then be a kind of show of force of the Targaryens through lands that were very much involved in the Blackfyre Rebellion.

If the purpose of Baelor coming to Ashford was to show off the Targaryen power in the Reach and disuade the former Blackfyre suppoter to rebel again, I wouldn't want to bring my mentally challenged brother nor my bookish brother to them. It's better they stay at court. I'm not sure how having some female members of the royal family in the story would make it better. What do they bring to this tourney story ?

29 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If George hasn't changed the family tree again the Dondarrion connection to Baelor Breakspear via his wife Jena Dondarrion has to be mentioned.

Jena and Manfred could be siblings and we can have a scene with Baelor and/or Valarr interacting with his brother-in-law/uncle at Ashford. Manfred is a bit of a douche, he would contraste well with the honorable Baelor Breakspear (like Jaime Lannister and Ned Stark scenes from GOT season 1).

[Ran]

I've been told that the first script is very faithful to "The Hedge Knight", so I don't know about these ideas of having a bunch of non-THK stuff being thrown into it.

It's worth considering George's general view that he doesn't like it when screenwriters think they know better than the author of the source material they're writing, and George sounds like he'll have a substantial say on how this show proceeds, even more so than he did with early GoT or HotD. I certainly think some details will be fleshed out in regards to the Blackfyre Rebellion, since he hadn't come up with it when he originally wrote the novella, but otherwise...

Edited April 13, 2023 by Ran

[Lord Varys]

6 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

That's pretty pesimistic to have her die in childbirth but unfortunatly quite on brand from GRRM. I'd like her to live up to Maekar's reign if Elaena can go on at court up until her seventies so should Myriah.

That would be my wish as well, but I doubt we'll get that. However, they could die together in the spring, I guess. But then - since the stuff hasn't been written yet, there is always the chance for things to turn out better. To see Dunk & Egg meet with Queen Myriah definitely could be a highlight in a future novella.

6 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

If the purpose of Baelor coming to Ashford was to show off the Targaryen power in the Reach and disuade the former Blackfyre suppoter to rebel again, I wouldn't want to bring my mentally challenged brother nor my bookish brother to them. It's better they stay at court. I'm not sure how having some female members of the royal family in the story would make it better. What do they bring to this tourney story ?

Windowdressing and world-building I'd say. You could, of course, adapt the stories as they are, but we can assume that (some of) those characters get important later, so it might make sense to give us some glimpses in THK. The argument you give as to why Aerys and Rhaegel stayed at home are Baelor's in the novella - but that's them simply having a tourney tour (or a tourney visit) for young Valarr. If they include the Blackfyre thing - which is absent from THK - then having all four sons of Daeron II out in the open could be a statement.

Also, of course, there would be ways to make it sense for both. Say, Aerys insisting to come because he wanted to consult some maesters along the way and, especially, in Oldtown (which could be the final destination of the progress). And Rhaegel could have a mad episode were he obsesses about tourneys and/or wants to participate in them.

The women I just mentioned because there are also Penroses at Ashford.

6 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Jena and Manfred could be siblings and we can have a scene with Baelor and/or Valarr interacting with his brother-in-law/uncle at Ashford. Manfred is a bit of a douche, he would contraste well with the honorable Baelor Breakspear (like Jaime Lannister and Ned Stark scenes from GOT season 1).

That would be kind of the idea I had.

5 minutes ago, Ran said:

I've been told that the first script is very faithful to "The Hedge Knight", so I don't know about these ideas of having a bunch of non-THK stuff being thrown into it.

It's worth considering George's general view that he doesn't like it when screenwriters think they know better than the author of the source material they're writing, and George sounds like he'll have a substantial say on how this show proceeds, even more so than he did with early GoT or HotD.

If but George had had remained faithful to the setting of THK! Then he wouldn't have ruined the 'better, more fairy-tale world' vibe you get in that story with the 'by the way, we had a big civil war a couple of years ago and everybody is still confused about the color of the royal dragon and super on edge when this topic comes up' vibe.

But faithful script or no, they will add and change things.

[chrisdaw]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

I've been told that the first script is very faithful to "The Hedge Knight", so I don't know about these ideas of having a bunch of non-THK stuff being thrown into it.

It's worth considering George's general view that he doesn't like it when screenwriters think they know better than the author of the source material they're writing, and George sounds like he'll have a substantial say on how this show proceeds, even more so than he did with early GoT or HotD. I certainly think some details will be fleshed out in regards to the Blackfyre Rebellion, since he hadn't come up with it when he originally wrote the novella, but otherwise...

Do you know if it is covering just "The Hedge Knight" story in the first "season"?

[Ran]

8 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Do you know if it is covering just "The Hedge Knight" story in the first "season"?

I do not.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Something tells me Egg’s mother probably died giving birth to his sister. That seems to be the pattern for the histories. Weirdly, women in the main series tend to outlive their husbands (Cat, Cersei, Jeyne Westerling, Margaery, Alannys, Lysa, Ellaria) but in the histories they almost always go first.

[Lord Varys]

31 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Something tells me Egg’s mother probably died giving birth to his sister. That seems to be the pattern for the histories. Weirdly, women in the main series tend to outlive their husbands (Cat, Cersei, Jeyne Westerling, Margaery, Alannys, Lysa, Ellaria) but in the histories they almost always go first.

Dyanna Dayne very likely died either giving birth to Rhae or during yet another failed pregnancy after that one. The vibe you get from Egg in THK is that she is dead for quite some time and he might never have known her all that well. Another cause of death is certainly possible ... but not very likely. Especially in her case since she did have at least six pregnancies.

And, of course, the best way to deal with Dondarrion problem in THK is to assume that Jena Dondarrion is dead for a long time, too, perhaps dying in childbirth when giving birth to Matarys (or during a stillbirth taking place shortly after the Redgrass Field). That way the ties between Baelor and Manfred may have been less prominent than they would have been if Jena had still been around. In context it is actually quite nonsensical that Baelor doesn't call on Ser Manfred to join him as Dunk's champion. He would have a hold over the guy.

Also, of course, Jena Dondarrion should and would have been at Baelor's side for the occasion, cheering on her firstborn son Valarr, second in line to the Iron Throne. This was Valarr's (and Daeron's and Aerion's) grand tour of the Realm (or the Reach/Stormlands, perhaps even Dorne). I'm not sure what better things their respective mothers could have to do than to see their sons getting their first spots in the sunlight.

The king (and queen) staying behind because of age and infirmity and to not draw attention away from the young princes makes sense. But their mothers not bothering makes little sense. Maekar not bringing his girls makes kind of sense - Rhae is younger than Egg and Daella not much older ... and Egg really had to beg Daeron to be his squire. But if his wife had still been alive she should and would have been there, too. Unless a very good reason prevented her.

Jena would also have used the occasion of the tourney to meet her family again - and the entire royal party may have continued on to Blackhaven after the Ashford tourney.

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If George doesn't know if the eye socket is empty, includes some stone, has hair brushed over it, or is hidden behind a patch I can also forget that the guy lost one.

If I recall correctly, the tear ducts aren't actually part of the eyeball itself so he could still cry out of both sockets.

Edited April 14, 2023 by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

[GZ Bloodraven]

My only complaint is that A Kotsk is not as funny as Hot D. I also think these should probably be a series of movies because of length: one Game of Thrones book was a season of GoT, one Dunk and Egg story being an entire season seems like they'll either have shorter episodes or add a lot of sideplots and stuff.

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Dyanna Dayne very likely died either giving birth to Rhae or during yet another failed pregnancy after that one. The vibe you get from Egg in THK is that she is dead for quite some time and he might never have known her all that well. Another cause of death is certainly possible ... but not very likely. Especially in her case since she did have at least six pregnancies.

And, of course, the best way to deal with Dondarrion problem in THK is to assume that Jena Dondarrion is dead for a long time, too, perhaps dying in childbirth when giving birth to Matarys (or during a stillbirth taking place shortly after the Redgrass Field). That way the ties between Baelor and Manfred may have been less prominent than they would have been if Jena had still been around. In context it is actually quite nonsensical that Baelor doesn't call on Ser Manfred to join him as Dunk's champion. He would have a hold over the guy.

Also, of course, Jena Dondarrion should and would have been at Baelor's side for the occasion, cheering on her firstborn son Valarr, second in line to the Iron Throne. This was Valarr's (and Daeron's and Aerion's) grand tour of the Realm (or the Reach/Stormlands, perhaps even Dorne). I'm not sure what better things their respective mothers could have to do than to see their sons getting their first spots in the sunlight.

The king (and queen) staying behind because of age and infirmity and to not draw attention away from the young princes makes sense. But their mothers not bothering makes little sense. Maekar not bringing his girls makes kind of sense - Rhae is younger than Egg and Daella not much older ... and Egg really had to beg Daeron to be his squire. But if his wife had still been alive she should and would have been there, too. Unless a very good reason prevented her.

Jena would also have used the occasion of the tourney to meet her family again - and the entire royal party may have continued on to Blackhaven after the Ashford tourney.

Actually, now that I think about it, it might be a good idea to include Jena Dondarrion. It’s not like there’s an abundance of female characters in The Hedge Knight. (Although because this is HBO, we’ll probably get a scene of Aerion getting down with a camp follower).

[zionius]

9 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

....then again, Martin stated that Season 1 "is based on the first novella". Perhaps...he was speaking loosely? I don't know.

Source? I also see EW mentioned that.

[The Bard of Banefort]

10 minutes ago, zionius said:

Source? I also see EW mentioned that.

I think it was from a Notablog post.

[mcbigski]

8 hours ago, Ran said:

Robert Silverberg asked him to contribute a story to Legends, and "The Hedge Knight" is what he came up with.

As to Dunk, closest I've found is Jacob Elordi, who plays a teen on Euphoria and is 6'4". I suspect Dunk will be a relative unknown.

Eh.  6' 4" is like the Manute Bol of actors, consider Tom Cruise.  But it's not actually all that tall.  I'm taller than that I have friends also named Michael that are far taller still!  

I'm excited for this project, but I like the idea of doing D&E animated better.  From Ashford to Summerhall is what 5 or 6 decades?   Tough to cast.

[zionius]

3 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think it was from a Notablog post.

I can only find "And the Dunk & Egg show, THE HEDGE KNIGHT or KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS, with Steve Conrad writing." in https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/06/23/snow-and-other-stuff/, nothing about a story per season.

[The Bard of Banefort]

20 minutes ago, zionius said:

I can only find "And the Dunk & Egg show, THE HEDGE KNIGHT or KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS, with Steve Conrad writing." in https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/06/23/snow-and-other-stuff/, nothing about a story per season.

I found it. It was from last March's infamous "I am sorry for you" blog post: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/03/09/random-updates-and-bits-o-news/

[zionius]

Quote

 

We’re leaning toward A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS for the series title, though THE HEDGE KNIGHT has its partisans as well.

 

I guess they do want to use THK for the first 3 seasons/stories.