On and On About Harry & Meghan Part 4

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Ok.. whatever you say. 

Exactly what I'd expect from someone who doesn't actually want to think critically about the subject. There's a mountain of evidence the UK has deep racial tensions that span centuries. Pretending they're not real and don't impact society today is literally putting your head in the sand. 

[Heartofice]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Exactly what I'd expect from someone who doesn't actually want to think critically about the subject. There's a mountain of evidence the UK has deep racial tensions that span centuries. Pretending they're not real and don't impact society today is literally putting your head in the sand. 

There’s also plenty of evidence to show that it doesn’t. Also I live there. You just read the Guardian and NYT a lot.

[Cas Stark]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Exactly what I'd expect from someone who doesn't actually want to think critically about the subject. There's a mountain of evidence the UK has deep racial tensions that span centuries. Pretending they're not real and don't impact society today is literally putting your head in the sand. 

You often speak  as if once something was true, it must always be true.   If George V was racist, then it follows that his descendents, 100 years later must also be racist.  If any given institution or country was racist in the past, then they must still be racist today.  That seems to me objectively wrong.  In the US, African Americans are doing better than they have ever done in the past, better economically, educationally, culturally.  Yet many people here speak like it is still 1960 or maybe even 1940 with no acknowledgement of the massive strides that have been made over the past half century.

[Spockydog]

Clearly, HoI inhabits an alternative universe where none of the Black England players got thousands and thousands of racist tweets after losing a football match.

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Spockydog

[Heartofice]

20 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Exactly what I'd expect from someone who doesn't actually want to think critically about the subject. There's a mountain of evidence the UK has deep racial tensions that span centuries. Pretending they're not real and don't impact society today is literally putting your head in the sand. 

Also tell me more about these ‘deep racial tensions that span centuries’ in a country that was 99.9% white until the 1950s. Damn you are so confused.

[Heartofice]

25 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Clearly, HoI inhabits an alternative universe where none of the Black England players got thousands and thousands of racist tweets after losing a football match.

 

Problem with that argument is that most of them weren’t english

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9964889/amp/Majority-trolls-sent-racist-abuse-Bukayo-Saka-lived-abroad.html

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

35 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

There’s also plenty of evidence to show that it doesn’t. Also I live there. You just read the Guardian and NYT a lot.

Living there can in fact make it harder for you to see. And just because you can point to things that aren't racist doesn't mean you can say the country overall isn't. 

27 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

You often speak  as if once something was true, it must always be true.   If George V was racist, then it follows that his descendents, 100 years later must also be racist.  If any given institution or country was racist in the past, then they must still be racist today.  That seems to me objectively wrong.  In the US, African Americans are doing better than they have ever done in the past, better economically, educationally, culturally.  Yet many people here speak like it is still 1960 or maybe even 1940 with no acknowledgement of the massive strides that have been made over the past half century.

Lol. Are you one of these people that thinks just because things are a little better that means racism is gone? Or that say Obama getting elected means racism against African Americans is over? Dude, for a long time now the government has been saying white nationalist organizations are the most dangerous threat of terrorism in the country while we also see extrajudicial killing after extrajudicial killing by cops primarily on black people. That's what racism looks like. It's when the state plays a role in it. Not everything is as simple as dudes wearing hoods burning crosses on black people's lawns. And here in the US one party is actively courting these people. So don't tell me something that happened a long time ago isn't happening today just because black people are doing a little better financially and there aren't lynchings happening all the time.  

22 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Also tell me more about these ‘deep racial tensions that span centuries’ in a country that was 99.9% white until the 1950s. Damn you are so confused.

And then in the 50's your greatest leader said this:

Quote

In 1955, Churchill expressed his support for the slogan "Keep England White" with regards to immigration from the West Indies.

But no racism, look away. 

[Spockydog]

32 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Also tell me more about these ‘deep racial tensions that span centuries’ in a country that was 99.9% white until the 1950s. Damn you are so confused.

Maybe you should just read a book or two. Or talk to your mum and dad. I mean, I'm sure it's all English roses and cream teas for you, in your alternative version of the UK, where a person of mixed-race never encounters any racism. 

Anyway, in the real world, wrt the British Establishment's proud tradition of treating others like second or even third class citizens, and in terms of institutionalising that shit, I'd say it probably began with Longshanks' treatment of the Jews, about a thousand fucking years ago. 

From Historic England: (note it's not Fantasy England or Rose-Tinted England) 

Quote

 

Racism and Resistance
Imperial European powers found ways to justify the barbaric slave system and the invasion, colonisation and expropriation of foreign lands for the expansion of their wealth.

Britain amongst them created a hierarchy with white Europeans at the top and Africans and Asians at the bottom. Racism became embedded into the nation's structures of power, culture, education and identity.

People from Africa, the Caribbean and Asia were encouraged by government to come to England. But on arrival here they often faced racism and discrimination, which was not illegal in Britain until 1965.

Racist attacks
In 1919, there were large-scale racist attacks on 'coloured' communities in London, Manchester, Liverpool, Hull, South Shields as well as parts of Scotland and Wales. There were other large-scale attacks in Liverpool in 1948, in Nottingham and Notting Hill in 1958 and at other times and places throughout the century since 1918.

One of the most well-known racist murders is that of teenager Stephen Lawrence in 1993. There have been many murders in the past, including, Akhtar Ali Baig in East Ham in 1980. Kelso Cochrane was also murdered in Notting Hill in 1959 and Charles Wootton, in Liverpool in 1919.

Racist practices, policies and politics
Although migrant workers have been vital for the growth of Britain's economy and public services, racism has sometimes been widespread. There was the 'colour bar' that prevented 'coloured' people obtaining jobs and accommodation, fighting for British boxing titles or even joining the armed services or serving as officers in them. Some laws were openly racist too, such as the 1925 Coloured Alien Seamen's Order or the 1981 British Nationality Act.

There have been openly racist speeches by leading politicians too. Seeking to create divisions and stir up racism Enoch Powell's infamous 'Rivers of Blood' tirade in 1968 is a well-known example. And then there are the activities of politically racist organisations such as the National Front.

Resistance, protest and defence
In response those of African, Caribbean and Asian descent have been forced to find various forms of resistance alongside allies. They organised political actions or demonstrations such as the Grumwick Strike in 1976 and the Black People's Day of Action in 1981 in London. There were various protests against police and racist violence in the 1970s and 1980s.

Sometimes it meant forming defence organisations such as the League of Coloured Peoples and the first Indian Workers' Association established in the 1930s, or the Black People's Alliance in the 1970s.

At other times, communities responded by establishing places of refuge and sanctuary. There was the widespread supplementary school movement often favoured in Caribbean communities. There were also centres such as Africa House in Camden in the 1930s, or cultural centres, such as the Drum in Birmingham in the 1990s.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Spockydog

[Heartofice]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Living there can in fact make it harder for you to see. And just because you can point to things that aren't racist doesn't mean you can say the country overall isn't. 

Lol. Are you one of these people that thinks just because things are a little better that means racism is gone? Or that say Obama getting elected means racism against African Americans is over? Dude, for a long time now the government has been saying white nationalist organizations are the most dangerous threat of terrorism in the country while we also see extrajudicial killing after extrajudicial killing by cops primarily on black people. That's what racism looks like. It's when the state plays a role in it. Not everything is as simple as dudes wearing hoods burning crosses on black people's lawns. And here in the US one party is actively courting these people. So don't tell me something that happened a long time ago isn't happening today just because black people are doing a little better financially and there aren't lynchings happening all the time.  

And then in the 50's your greatest leader said this:

But no racism, look away. 

Come on, deep racial tensions that lasted centuries.. I’m waiting 

[BigFatCoward]

32 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Clearly, HoI inhabits an alternative universe where none of the Black England players got thousands and thousands of racist tweets after losing a football match.

 

Those penalties were pretty fucking abysmal though. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

24 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Also tell me more about these ‘deep racial tensions that span centuries’ in a country that was 99.9% white until the 1950s. Damn you are so confused.

That’s easy. The 0.1% were slaves. The first ones were brought to England in the 1500’s

Quote

By the mid-18th century, London had the largest African population in Britain. The number of black people living in Britain by that point has been estimated by historians to be roughly 10,000, though contemporary reports put that number as high as 20,000. Some Africans living in Britain would run away from their masters, many of whom responded by placing advertisements in newspapers offering rewards for the returns.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain
 

 

[Spockydog]

What are you doing, bringing facts to the table? Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Come on, deep racial tensions that lasted centuries.. I’m waiting 

You posted faster than you could even read my response. And if you need this explained to you, like Spocky said, clearly you need to read about your country's history. I just quoted your greatest leader of the 20th century saying keep England white. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[Week]

 

 

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You posted faster than you could even read my response. And if you need this explained to you, like Spocky said, clearly you need to read about your country's history. I just quoted your greatest leader of the 20th century saying keep England white. 

I know enough about my countries history to know there is a difference between saying people had racist attitudes in the past to ‘deep racial tension that lasted centuries’. You can’t have deep racial tension in a country that is 99.9% one race, it’s nonsensical. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

17 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I know enough about my countries history to know there is a difference between saying people had racist attitudes in the past to ‘deep racial tension that lasted centuries’. You can’t have deep racial tension in a country that is 99.9% one race, it’s nonsensical. 

Yes you can because your country dominated and exploited black and brown people at the same time while the citizens of England and your government looked down on them as inferior. That's textbook racism. And the stated goal, both then and now, is to keep the others out as best you can which is why your current government has a fucked up policy of sending refugees to Rwanda of all places. 

Just face it dude, you do not want to look in the mirror and instead want to maintain a happy fantasy. It's not real. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[Zorral]

Fools never stop being fools, alas.  You can make book on it. 

Can no one recall that silly billy lady in in waiting who asked MM how dark the baby was going to be?  Of course not, because silly billy was immediately dismissed and hustled out of the way of revealing yet more harm in the royal circles.

[Heartofice]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Yes you can because your country dominated and exploited black and brown people at the same time while the citizens of England and your government looked down on them as inferior. That's textbook racism. And the stated goal, both then and now, is to keep the others out as best you can which is why your current government has a fucked up policy of sending migrants to Rwanda of all places. 

Just face it dude, you do not want to look in the mirror and instead want to maintain a happy fantasy. It's not real. 

Word salad.

I can understand how you can have deep racial tension in a country with different racial groups, but in a country with 99.9% one race i don’t see how you can use the term ‘deep racial tension that spans centuries ’ to describe a situation when almost the entire country’s population would never come into contact with someone from another race during that time.

Now if you want to change your statement to ‘people were racist’ I’d agree with you, but otherwise what you said is batshit

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

What if it’s 99.8%?

don’t even get me started on what they did to the Irish. But you’ll say,”They’re the same race, funny man!” Not according to the fucking English they weren’t.

The literature that was published on this, as late as the early 20th century, is insane. 

[Spockydog]

They did some pretty bad shit to the Scots and the Welsh. Fucking sassanachs! 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Spockydog