US Politics: Felon-in-Chief

[Zorral]

Speaking of fascist states, DeSantis now has criminalized the buying of vehicles in any way except from a state licensed dealership -- except Tesla.

https://www.autonews.com/dealers/direct-consumer-vehicle-sales-banned-exceptions

 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Speaking of fascist states, DeSantis now has criminalized the buying of vehicles in any way except from a state licensed dealership -- except Tesla.

https://www.autonews.com/dealers/direct-consumer-vehicle-sales-banned-exceptions

 

 

Individuals can’t sell their vehicles in Florida except to dealers?  That’s a huge violation of the “Contracts clause”.

[Varysblackfyre321]

 

[Kalbear]

39 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Individuals can’t sell their vehicles in Florida except to dealers?  That’s a huge violation of the “Contracts clause”.

No, it's saying that if you want to sell vehicles as a company you have to do it as an authorized dealership and not direct to consumer.
Except if you're Tesla, which is very weird.

[Zorral]

19 minutes ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

No, it's saying that if you want to sell vehicles as a company you have to do it as an authorized dealership and not direct to consumer.
Except if you're Tesla, which is very weird.

It's because desanty and tesla are in twit bed together.

Tell me this kind of thing isn't out-and-out from the fascist/nazi playbook?

[Ran]

A lot of states have special (and rather anti-competitive) protections for dealerships, an issue that Tesla has been dealing with for years. In fact, in May there was a case before the Delaware Supreme Court about similar matter, overturning a lower court decision that would have prevented Tesla from selling direct to consumers.

While Tesla lobbied for the language change to the bill that kept them in business in Florida, saying it's a "Tesla" carve out isn't right -- Tesla is not named directly. Instead, any newer EV manufacturer that has a store front selling direct to consumers will be given a franchisee dealership license if they aren't otherwise prohibited by the state. Rivian, Polestar, and some other EV manufacturers are taking the same approach as Tesla, selling direct to consumers, so they too will be able to sell in Florida.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ran

[Zorral]

In the US at least, you can buy a new car online. So, not exactly correct.

[Ran]

29 minutes ago, Zorral said:

In the US at least, you can buy a new car online. So, not exactly correct.

You may think so, but the car you order online is delivered to you through a franchise dealer whose cut is priced into the car you purchase (unless, that is, it's a Tesla or other manfuacturer using their model who own their stores/galleries themselves). Nearly every state in the union (by nearly, I mean every state except one, apparently -- though I can't figure out which one it is, and it's not clear if it is totally open for direct sales or just less strict than other states) forbids legacy manufacturers from selling direct to consumers. The Tallahassee Democrat has this to say:

Quote

Can I buy vehicles directly from the manufacturer in other states?

Not as such. Every state in the U.S. requires legacy automakers to sell new vehicles through local franchised dealers, to varying degrees. You can go online and pick out a car from an automaker's website but you would have to work with a dealer for the transaction and delivery.

Some states completely ban all direct-to-consumer sales, including Tesla. Tesla has gotten around this by selling cars nationwide through its website and offering "titling packets" that allow consumers to register their new Tesla in their own state. In 2021, Tesla did an end-run around New Mexico's direct-to-consumer restrictions by opening a Tesla store and repair shop on Native American land, which is not subject to state laws.

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ran

[Gaston de Foix]

3 hours ago, Ran said:

A lot of states have special (and rather anti-competitive) protections for dealerships, an issue that Tesla has been dealing with for years. In fact, in May there was a case before the Delaware Supreme Court about similar matter, overturning a lower court decision that would have prevented Tesla from selling direct to consumers.

While Tesla lobbied for the language change to the bill that kept them in business in Florida, saying it's a "Tesla" carve out isn't right -- Tesla is not named directly. Instead, any newer EV manufacturer that has a store front selling direct to consumers will be given a franchisee dealership license if they aren't otherwise prohibited by the state. Rivian, Polestar, and some other EV manufacturers are taking the same approach as Tesla, selling direct to consumers, so they too will be able to sell in Florida.

It's amazing that in a world of open markets and seemingly perfect and instantaneous information middle men continue to thrive.  What service, exactly, does a car dealership offer consumers? 

[ThinkerX]

23 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

It's amazing that in a world of open markets and seemingly perfect and instantaneous information middle men continue to thrive.  What service, exactly, does a car dealership offer consumers? 

Access to proprietary parts and authorized mechanics.

Proprietary parts are a legal scam. The daughter started having issues with the headlights in the van, so she took it into the shop where the mechanics told her it was the switch - a proprietary part available ONLY through Ford. She figured it would be maybe a $20 piece. Instead...it was over $200 - just for the switch, plus the labor. But there was no real choice; sticking a generic switch in there would have caused...issues, and it needed replaced. 

Most of the profit in vehicles isn't from selling new ones, but rather the parts and expertise to keep the old ones running. I strongly suspect that many manufacturers deliberately place commonly replaced items (alternators, headlights) in locations difficult for those without mechanical expertise to replace.

EV's are a threat to this model, mostly because they have far, far fewer parts needing repair or replacement - mostly just the battery, fuse, and charge portal.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

What service, exactly, does a car dealership offer consumers? 

In my experience, none. 

38 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

Most of the profit in vehicles isn't from selling new ones, but rather the parts and expertise to keep the old ones running. I strongly suspect that many manufacturers deliberately place commonly replaced items (alternators, headlights) in locations difficult for those without mechanical expertise to replace.

I use to have a sweet Acura TL. But none of the parts for it were compatible with other TLs. I really enjoyed having to pay way above market prices for repairs...

4 hours ago, Ran said:

A lot of states have special (and rather anti-competitive) protections for dealerships, 

And the real question should be why this is ever allowed in the first place? There's zero justification for it. Hard to argue it's anything other than a corrupt practice. 

[Darzin]

6 hours ago, Zorral said:

Tell me this kind of thing isn't out-and-out from the fascist/nazi playbook?

I dunno that this out of the facist playbook, so much as it's the province of tin pot dictators everywhere. 

[Ran]

6 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

It's amazing that in a world of open markets and seemingly perfect and instantaneous information middle men continue to thrive.  What service, exactly, does a car dealership offer consumers? 

Automotive manufacturers off-load showcasing, delivery, and service to dealerships.

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

And the real question should be why this is ever allowed in the first place? There's zero justification for it. Hard to argue it's anything other than a corrupt practice. 

It ties into the very origins of dealerships, in a time when cars were brand new things that very few people understood and there were dozens of small auto manufacturers trying to figure out what the right business model. Independent dealerships began to work with manufacturers, and then they started to get involved in politics to help their industry, and then through that they became lobbying powerhouses who worked to create protectionist laws to keep themselves in business against manufacturers who wanted to explore direct-to-consumer sales and servicing.

So, a very American story: special interests in a nascent space works hard to establish their new industry.... and then over time becomes a monster. 

3 hours ago, Darzin said:

I dunno that this out of the facist playbook, so much as it's the province of tin pot dictators everywhere. 

As I noted, there's nothing dictatorish or fascist about it, it's just good old American politics. Every state basically has the same setup, and it has existed long before DeSantis. 

[Mindwalker]

WOW, the WaPo already has someone call for Biden pardoning TFG... in this term. I certainly believe he might do so in his second term - it's kind of a tradition, plus the pinnacle of one-sided bipartisanship - but this just takes the cake!

My favorite points in favour of a pardon: 1. To everything, there's a season (aka heal the nation) 2. I would drive Trump crazy. Sure, sure.

I refuse to directly link the op-ed from yesterday, so here's a bit about it (and background on the author):

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/6/15/2175627/-A-WaPo-columnist-s-absurd-argument-that-Biden-should-pardon-Trump

(I disagree with the part where the aauthor suggests a pardon for a public confession and a promise not to run for office.)

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Mindwalker

[Gaston de Foix]

3 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

WOW, the WaPo already has someone call for Biden pardoning TFG... in this term. I certainly believe he might do so in his second term - it's kind of a tradition, plus the pinnacle of one-sided bipartisanship - but this just takes the cake!

My favorite points in favour of a pardon: 1. To everything, there's a season (aka heal the nation) 2. I would drive Trump crazy. Sure, sure.

I refuse to directly link the op-ed from yesterday, so here's a bit about it (and background on the author):

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/6/15/2175627/-A-WaPo-columnist-s-absurd-argument-that-Biden-should-pardon-Trump

(I disagree with the part where the aauthor suggests a pardon for a public confession and a promise not to run for office.)

There is a tradition (not sure it is a rule) that you have to apply for a pardon in a prescribed form (usually including admitting guilt).  Trump is not going to let a guilty conviction stand until the Supreme Court has affirmed his conviction (or denied cert.) so it will definitely be a Biden 2nd term discussion. 

My transactional view, is that he should do it in return for an assault weapon ban.  

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

There is a tradition (not sure it is a rule) that you have to apply for a pardon in a prescribed form (usually including admitting guilt).  Trump is not going to let a guilty conviction stand until the Supreme Court has affirmed his conviction (or denied cert.) so it will definitely be a Biden 2nd term discussion. 

My transactional view, is that he should do it in return for an assault weapon ban.  

My cynical view is, he shouldn't. Let Republicans go after each other for two primary cycles (or however long the orange gargoyle lasts) over pardoning him and become (hopefully) unpalatable to the general electorate in the process. And maybe collect Thomas seat on the supreme court. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 hours ago, Ran said:

It ties into the very origins of dealerships, in a time when cars were brand new things that very few people understood and there were dozens of small auto manufacturers trying to figure out what the right business model. Independent dealerships began to work with manufacturers, and then they started to get involved in politics to help their industry, and then through that they became lobbying powerhouses who worked to create protectionist laws to keep themselves in business against manufacturers who wanted to explore direct-to-consumer sales and servicing.

So, a very American story: special interests in a nascent space works hard to establish their new industry.... and then over time becomes a monster. 

Oh America, do you have the freedom to live a good life or the freedom to fuck everyone else over? What a wonderful place...

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

There is a tradition (not sure it is a rule) that you have to apply for a pardon in a prescribed form (usually including admitting guilt).  Trump is not going to let a guilty conviction stand until the Supreme Court has affirmed his conviction (or denied cert.) so it will definitely be a Biden 2nd term discussion. 

My transactional view, is that he should do it in return for an assault weapon ban.  

That ship has sailed. And Trump deserves zero quarter. He needs to go to jail for the rest of his life. 

[LongRider]

B'uh Bye suckah!   Perhaps the Tuck will hire you to lie on his new show.

 

[Zorral]

These convicted seditious J6 have suffered dreadful indignities and tortures. (While, as the article points out, still breaking the laws governing convicted prisoners, such as ... traveling.)

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/06/convicted-january-6-rioters-returned-to-the-scene-of-the-crime-this-week/

Quote

.... Straka was arrested and charged with four criminal counts, including the felony of impeding law enforcement during a civil disturbance. He later pleaded guilty to one count of disorderly conduct at the Capitol and was sentenced to 90 days of home detention and three years’ probation. He spent his time at the Capitol this week testifying about the indignities he’s suffered since being arrested in 2021. Among them: losing TSA PreCheck. ....

Just horrible, such suffering.