Football: Windows of missed opportunities

[ljkeane]

Maddison to Spurs for £40 million apparently. That’s a pretty good signing.

[baxus]

1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

Maddison to Spurs for £40 million apparently. That’s a pretty good signing.

Not for Maddison.

[Consigliere]

12 hours ago, Mexal said:

There we go. 
 

 

 

That should get it done for Arsenal. One of the City journos (Jack Gaughan) has reported that City does not intend to match this offer. West Ham look to be happy with the overall package but are negotiating a more favourable payment structure.

[Mexal]

Huge signing. Will transform the side. And I’m super excited about Havertz (get the concern over Chelsea years but I think his talent will be unlocked in #8 position with this side around him) and Timber. If all 3 are in before preseason, we will be in a really good spot to start strong again. Love the strength of conviction from Arteta on exactly what he wants to take this side to the next level. Massive.

[Mark Antony]

 

[Spockydog]

Getting our business done like future champions. Been coveting Rice for years. Delighted we've got him. 

[polishgenius]

I get the excitement for signing Rice, and if Arsenal can afford it more power to them. But I still think the price is wildly disproportionate to his level of actual talent and usefulness, even in an inflated market.

 

Still, I understand it more than the Havertz signing, which genuinely just baffles me. Like, Mexal says his talent will be unlocked in the 8 position and that's not impossible but that's a hell of a gamble to take on a player who even at his most midfieldish was more attacking than that. Given his obvious talent it would be an understandable gamble if there weren't a lot of 8s around but there are. Hoping Havertz can work as an 8 is not more of a gamble than getting an Enzo Le Fee or Teun Koopmeiners type profile in from overseas.

And if he is being bought as a multi-position rounded forward, which is the other obvious potential use for him, Eze and Maddison are both right there.

I mean, Arteta clearly sees something. But idgi.

[ljkeane]

Yeah, I must admit to not being entirely convinced by what Arsenal are doing with their summer business. I can see how it could work (and it absolutely might) but considering they've obviously committed to going for it this summer and have spent going for it money with £165 million on two players it doesn't feel as likely to work as it should. I don't know, Rice is a good player and will undoubtedly be reasonable but I'm not sure he's a £100 million midfielder and Havertz just feels like a big gamble. I guess we'll find out.

[Nas!]

Bye bye, Dec!  Thanks for everything.  It’ll be hard to watch you in an Arsenal shirt, but hopefully you’ll get what you are looking for there.  

[Mexal]

I’m not stressed about price. Rice is a leader, English and a top talent so of course that would be expensive. Arteta wants him because he is one of the best in the PL (if not the best) at breaking up play, he is one of the best at carrying the ball forward once he wins it back and he is an absolute engine. Given how tight and compact we play, he will be critical in winning the ball back and quickly transitioning to offense. He will also be critical in breaking the press. Not sure there is another player on the market as accomplished as he is at this position and with Gabriel/Saliba behind him and some quality in front, think his talent gets further unlocked. I think with where Arsenal are in their build, his usefulness is more important to them than other teams. Hard to understate the importance of Rodri for City or Kante was for Chelsea. Those types of players are critical and though he’s more expensive than both (he’s English), I think we will ignore the price tag if it makes us better.

Havertz will be the tough one. I get the skepticism. His best years in Germany was as a CAM so while he won’t bring the defensive strength that Xhaka did, he should bring significantly more creativity and speed in transition (Xhaka took forever!). How Arteta manages to balance strengths vs weaknesses will remain to be seem, but at this point, given the hit rate on our transfers since he took over, I have to believe he has a super detailed plan of exactly how he will be used. And it seems to align with Havertz’s desires as well aa he thinks his best position (and favorite) is at 8. So I put my hands up as a homer and hope for magic.

Timber will also be a fantastic signing and bring much needed depth and versatility to the squad. So while I get skepticism of price and fit in an inflated market, these moves feel very targeted to improve our starting XI (and compliment the existing skill sets of the players) and everything I’ve seen from Arteta is that he has a very very detailed view of how this will all fit together based on their profiles and strengths.

Exciting for me. They all feel like upgrades over what we had and what we had was pretty damn good.

[Raja]

Might have to stop calling him tall mark noble now

[polishgenius]

Yeah with Rice I really don't think there's much wrong with actually signing him  - it's just that seeing him go for 100+ in the same window Ruben Neves (who I think is just as good, albeit a slightly different profile) is going for 40 or whatever it is is a little excessive. But it's also that thing where you see players like Bruno G and Caicedo come in to the league and ace it and I'm not convinced the 70-80 million difference in price is worth the difference in the gamble just coz Rice is in the Prem.

 

I do think a Rice/Havertz/Odegaard plan is risky though. Rice is a defensively quaity player but he's almost never been the deepest-lying/holding player in the team. Unless the idea is to turn Havertz into Pirlo it's gonna need some dedicated stepping-up from the CBs to let Rice be the ball-carrier he is. But presumably Arteta has a plan for that whether it's Havertz or someone else who ends up coming in.

 

[BigFatCoward]

For 170 million (even in today's market) you should be improving your starting 11. I'm not sure they have at all. I trust and rate Arteta very highly though so I'm prepared to be proven wrong.

I doubt Pep is sat at home even slightly worried though. 

[baxus]

Yesterday I had a laugh like I haven't had for a long time when reading about player transfers. Supposedly, there's another club interested in signing Mbappe this summer for 250M€ and of all the clubs the press could drag into that debate, they picked Liverpool.

As if Liverpool would pay that much for a single player. Hell, I'd be surprised if they spent that much in a single transfer window or even over a whole year.

[Consigliere]

Reports that AC Milan have agreed personal terms with Pulisic and are currently negotiating with Chelsea on price.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So Chelsea found a sucker to take him on? 

[The Sunland Lord]

Apparently United offered 45-50m€ for Onana, but they were rejected. However, 60m€ should persuade Inter. 

 

[Spockydog]

I think perhaps some of the criticism around Arsenal's transfer business is tinted with a hint of jealousy. It's understandable. I was jealous of a lot of clubs for a long, long time.

But not anymore. And now I wouldn't swap our squad and manager for any other in the PL.

And as for the befuddlement as to where Declan and Havertz might fit in to Arteta's plans, this is what Arseblog had to say this morning:

Quote

 

This time last summer, nobody anticipated that Oleksandr Zinchenko would come into the Arsenal squad and transform the midfield. But that’s what he did. The Ukrainian was a left-back who wasn’t a left-back at all, inverting into central midfield alongside Thomas Partey and he, alongside Saliba and Gabriel Jesus, totally changed the way Arsenal play.

None of us were talking about the possibility of a Partey and Zinchenko double pivot in midfield with Ben White at right-back and William Saliba as the ultimate vacuum cleaning defender. None of us. Which is what makes this summer so intriguing as far as I am concerned. Arsenal’s summer transfer business in 2021 and 2022 totally altered the team’s style of play.

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Spockydog

[Mexal]

The big thing about Rice is he had 65 interceptions last season. The most our midfield had was Partey and that was 26. He had 315 forward Carrie’s, Partey had most and it was 250. I think given Artetas push to run a high line, compact midfield and instantly get the ball back in the opponents half, Rice will bring an immense amount of strength to the midfield that will create lots of opportunities. That’s why he’s worth it for us (that and breaking a press through driving forward).

To your point about being the deepest, think this is why he wants Timber, a player that can easily invert on the right side into the midfield, similar to Zinchenko. Not sure if Havertz will be capable of sliding back into Rice’s spot similar to what Xhaka would do. That’ll be a gap. Anyway, should be interesting how this all works. One thing I will disagree with is I think we are clearly stronger in our starting XI than we were last season. And I think we are more versatile, could put Rice and Partey/Jorginho in midfield together and that’s pretty damn good.

[The Sunland Lord]