Rippounet Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I dislike musicals but loved this episode. Imho they did a number of things right: they had an explanation for the singing (techno-babble, but at least they tried), a decent plot as a result, and most of these songs were incrediby well written. The duo for Chapel and Spock (I'm ready/I'm the x) was both good musically and concluded their romance elegantly. This season's character development has been miles above its plots, but this show's undoubtebly good. fionwe1987, Ser Scot A Ellison and JGP 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 On 8/8/2023 at 7:48 PM, Rippounet said: The duo for Chapel and Spock (I'm ready/I'm the x) was both good musically and concluded their romance elegantly. It telegraphed the end, but I don't think we've seen the conclusion. I'm sure, with the Gorn threatening everyone, we will see a moment where they make a more proper end of it. But the core of what has to be said has been said, and very elegantly woven into the plot. Chapel's solo, especially, was an amazing mix of triumph and excitement blended with how horrifying this must be for Spock to hear, that he is maybe holding back this person he loves, and she's unable (as far as he knows) to see his need for her in his life. Really, they've done a bang up job deepening Spock, episode by episode. I remember lurking here and seeing a lot of people being unhappy about Chapel being in the show at all. I'm pretty sure there are still canon landmines around that inclusion, but what's the general consensus now? Personally, I feel her inclusion deepened both her and Spock, and her character in TOS desperately needed it anyway. And I'm now rewatching TOS with renewed interest, with so many of the characters getting deeper. It feels different when you have televised backstory that shows you how far many of these crew members have already been through so much by the time of those events. Makes the stories work better for me, honestly. Which is probably what the writing room is shooting for, with SNW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Never been a fan of massive season finale cliffhangers, especially in episodic shows. Otherwise another solid episode. Spoiler Scotty was awesome, especially how he was introduced. The space fight with the adult Gorn wasn't that great but at least it was interesting to see a big one, and in a space suit to boot. La'an ends another season not on board the Enterprise. I hope it doesn't become a trend. Ser Scot A Ellison and Wouter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 10, 2023 Author Share Posted August 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Corvinus85 said: Never been a fan of massive season finale cliffhangers, especially in episodic shows. Otherwise another solid episode. Hide contents Scotty was awesome, especially how he was introduced. The space fight with the adult Gorn wasn't that great but at least it was interesting to see a big one, and in a space suit to boot. La'an ends another season not on board the Enterprise. I hope it doesn't become a trend. It was a tad… generic… big season ending cliffhanger. I’ve become more immune to cliffhangers as I have gotten older… very good season. (I’ll own this one too)… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 (edited) Interesting episode. Chapel being the sole survivor on the Cayuga, or the sole survivor who happened to wake up in time, really really stretched belief for me. They could have done this part better. I'm interested to see how they explain the Gorn's actions, and what happens, but a fucking series finale cliffhanger is, as always, annoying. I'm wondering, based on what they showed, if the massive coronal flares are required for the Gorn to grow, and they infest anyone in the vicinity to expand their population. One would imagine that if it is a resource constraint that leads to their terrifying prey behavior, something can be worked out so the Federation knows to keep any of its folks away from such discharges near Gorn space, in exchange for the Gorn giving early warning and negotiating a way for Federation citizens to evaluate the area in advance of their arrival. They hinted at some of this, and I expect that was the point of bringing Sam with the ground team. Overall, solid episode, but also easily the weakest of this very excellent season, for me. This season has been a balm during some really trying times both on the personal and world front. Star Trek at its finest, as far as I'm concerned. Edited August 10, 2023 by fionwe1987 Rippounet and Ser Scot A Ellison 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: Interesting episode. Chapel being the sole survivor on the Cayuga, or the sole survivor who happened to wake up in time, really really stretched belief for me. They could have done this part better. It was worse than that, as far as I could tell there was no check at all whether anyone else had survived. Everyone was over the moon that our protagonist’s love interests were OK, never mind the ship that blew up. It was a cool episode, yea a bit generic and I’m not a fan of cliff hangers either. Or at least ones like this, Pike will either retreat or come up with some plan to save everyone and I don’t see why we need to wait for that decision. It would’ve been better to end with the decision (much like it was better to end on Riker firing on Picard, not wondering what he’ll decide). I might be forgetting some, but I think the opener and closer might actually be my least favourite episodes of the season? I still hold that this otherwise excellent series gains nothing from being a prequel. I’m not enjoying it anymore knowing that Chapel will end up marrying some other guy and going from being a badass to handing McCoy his tools. I don’t see the value in poking at the continuity like this when the bridge between TOS and SNW is so large, I can’t imagine gaining anything for watching chronologically. How well do we get to know Sam Kirk, just so Shatner can unceremoniously flip his corpse over? Or M’Benga, so he can get demoted? Rippounet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Liked the episode, but the sole survivor(?) on the Caygua thing was... bizzare. Just a throwaway line that they were able to access the computer and have it check for additional life signs, finding none, would have been good. Spoiler Or they could just have had Spock and Chapel find out there were other survivors separately, have them meet trying to get to them, and then the Gorn scout prevent them from doing it would have added some more weight to the finale as the successful destruction of the Gorn jammer was accompanied with the knowledge that Starfleet lives had been sacrificed to make it happen. Also... what was that Gorn scout trying to achieve? It was very clearly trying to get access to the computer system. Was it just trying to gain intelligence regarding Starfleet? Other spoilers: Spoiler Really liked the introduction of Scotty -- Martin Quinn does a nice job doing something a bit in the direction of Simon Pegg's rendition of the character, moreso than James Doohan's OG, but one can put it down to playing a younger version of the character. They really went heavy on signaling that Batel (and maybe Ortegas) are doomed, while of course not necessarily planning to doom either of them. That said, I'm now inclined to think Ortegas is a goner next season, while Batel will be saved by some transporter trickery that Chapel and Scotty figure out. Am I wrong in recalling that there was some TNG episode where a transporter was used to purge someone's pattern of some sort of parasite or disease? And now that they have scanners that can detect Gorn.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 I realized that another connection between La'an and Kirk is the Gorn. What will future La'an say, provided she is still alive, that Kirk manages to defeat an adult Gorn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 10, 2023 Author Share Posted August 10, 2023 21 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: I realized that another connection between La'an and Kirk is the Gorn. What will future La'an say, provided she is still alive, that Kirk manages to defeat an adult Gorn? What about Kirk’s brief fling with the Gorn… that’ll really tick off La’an… https://youtu.be/N_KeXfd5OHI Corvinus85 and SpaceChampion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 This episode reminded me of a level in Mass Effect and I mean that in a good way. In Mass Effect 2, there's a mission where a colony called Horizon is being attacked by the Collectors, who are abducting the colonists. Really good episode. I just worry we're going to have to wait a long time for the second part, because of this dam writers/actors strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 the new Scotty. Rippounet and Ran 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 10, 2023 Author Share Posted August 10, 2023 19 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said: the new Scotty. Scots. The funniest angry people ever to walk the Earth… https://youtu.be/HbDnxzrbxn4 SpaceChampion and Ran 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 3:58 PM, DaveSumm said: It was worse than that, as far as I could tell there was no check at all whether anyone else had survived. Everyone was over the moon that our protagonist’s love interests were OK, never mind the ship that blew up. I think they did do some initial scans, but that didn't reveal Chapel, either. That Spock didn't do a closer range scan before crashing the ship as a weapon is just baffling. Unless they plan to bring this up and resolve it, it's a shocking miss. On 8/10/2023 at 3:58 PM, DaveSumm said: I still hold that this otherwise excellent series gains nothing from being a prequel. I’m not enjoying it anymore knowing that Chapel will end up marrying some other guy and going from being a badass to handing McCoy his tools. I don’t see the value in poking at the continuity like this when the bridge between TOS and SNW is so large, I can’t imagine gaining anything for watching chronologically. How well do we get to know Sam Kirk, just so Shatner can unceremoniously flip his corpse over? Or M’Benga, so he can get demoted? Agree. Of course, SNW was a direct result of fan interest in these characters in Discovery, so it isn't mysterious why they went this way. But I think they should push their storytelling chops in a totally new era. Prodigy shows they can intelligently extend past Voyager, but the post-Disovery Federation is the playground I actually want them to explore more. I hope they will, soon. On 8/10/2023 at 4:15 PM, Ran said: Just a throwaway line that they were able to access the computer and have it check for additional life signs, finding none, would have been good. Or show Chapel surviving because she recognized some sign of the Gorn, from past experience, just in time to save only herself, because she beams up just seconds before the attack. Heck, have her SOS work to confirm to Spock and Uhura that their plan has merit because no one truly was left alive. On 8/10/2023 at 4:15 PM, Ran said: Hide contents Also... what was that Gorn scout trying to achieve? It was very clearly trying to get access to the computer system. Was it just trying to gain intelligence regarding Starfleet? Spoiler I may be wrong, but the body language and attitude of all of the Gorn just isn't tracking with the shows prior interactions with them. I wonder if there are Gorn factions. How much of what La'an experienced is universal? On 8/10/2023 at 4:15 PM, Ran said: Other spoilers: Hide contents They really went heavy on signaling that Batel (and maybe Ortegas) are doomed, while of course not necessarily planning to doom either of them. That said, I'm now inclined to think Ortegas is a goner next season, while Batel will be saved by some transporter trickery that Chapel and Scotty figure out. Am I wrong in recalling that there was some TNG episode where a transporter was used to purge someone's pattern of some sort of parasite or disease? And now that they have scanners that can detect Gorn.... Spoiler I can see Batel dying a heroic death for what's left of her crew. She's kinda slowly been doing that anyway. I'd be surprised if Ortegas is doomed. I know the actor lost her partner before/during S2 shooting, and that probably affected how much she could be in this season, but they just haven't explored her character enough to kill her yet, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 23 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Scots. The funniest angry people ever to walk the Earth… Required: Corvinus85, Rippounet, Ser Scot A Ellison and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 I mean, it's a little bit racist, but totally hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 On 8/11/2023 at 12:15 AM, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Scots. The funniest angry people ever to walk the Earth… https://youtu.be/HbDnxzrbxn4 Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 I’ve enjoyed this one for a wee bit… Durckad, Spockydog and fionwe1987 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I’ve enjoyed this one for a wee bit… "Your accent is very thick. Is it possible to not have it?" Edited August 12, 2023 by Spockydog Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 (edited) On 8/10/2023 at 10:36 PM, fionwe1987 said: Interesting episode. Chapel being the sole survivor on the Cayuga, or the sole survivor who happened to wake up in time, really really stretched belief for me. Didn't she also spot and recognize Spock outside the window? That bit was badly written. The rest was ok, though it's clearly one of the weakest episodes of the season. The Gorn don't make good antagonists for me, I just can't buy that a race of apparently mindless predators could be so technologically advanced, they feel like a caricature from war propaganda. But if they can find a way to deal with them relatively peacefully next season, that might work out. Funny that after Picard having Star Wars vibes, SNW would have a scene straight out of Alien. Edit: if we're having fun with the Scottish accent, I'll nominate SNP MP David Linden in the House of Commons. Edited August 14, 2023 by Rippounet Spockydog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 I liked the finale. Yes, there is some stretching going on with Chapel and her survival, but considering the show length, the characters involved and what they have yet to do, and bit of story that was being told there...I'll accept a hand wave. It doesn't make or break the episode in the end. The Gorn...yeah...one of this show's remaining ret-cons of existing canon they need to address. They alluded to a significant Gorn story this season, but haven't developed the species beyond the young are like Xenomorphs or something...that we got an adult this time! In a space suit! Can they pull it off...? The adult Gorn, after watching The Ready Room, is pretty complicated. How will it translate to an articulated, speaking, character...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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