Should listening to audiobooks really be considered as ‘reading’ ?

[dog-days]

But you don't need to read books to get better at reading. 

There are also different types of reading. The OP seems to be talking about reading long factual texts critically, which, yes, is a specific skill, but not one that I can see is being eroded by podcasts or audiobooks. I don't believe there was ever a halcyon age when a majority of the population sat down after work with their copy of Gibbon or whatever to improve their mind. 

Sub-cultures may have. The kind with resources and leisure where the social milieu places value on people doing that kind of thing, rather than believing it's lazy/pretentious/just plain weird. 

[polishgenius]

On 7/25/2023 at 4:53 PM, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

am able to find time on the weekend to read quite easily,

 

Good for you. Some people don't. 

 

And quite frankly some people would have time to read but they'd rather spend their downtime doing something else and listen to audiobooks while cooking or driving because... why not? You can play a game or watch TV when the kids are in bed and still have read a good book because you listened to it while making dinner. You are saying there's something wrong with that. You are wrong. 

[Zorral]

How does the laundry get done?

[IlyaP]

3 hours ago, Zorral said:

How does the laundry get done?

I put a gun to the washing machine's head and say "wash the clothing mathafakka!" like I'm John Travolta amping it up to 29.  

[Zorral]

43 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

I put a gun to the washing machine's head and say "wash the clothing mathafakka!" like I'm John Travolta amping it up to 29.  

True toughy you are Bebee!     

Most guys, you know, don't bother to notice their moms, sisters, wives, daughters, servants taking care of it.  Like just about everything else.  Particularly in underprivileged countries where all the men who are tech bros who are deep into the work of investment are underprivileged, so 'the women' in the family also carry all that water from the wells, etc. while listening to books instead of reading them, which they should do during their leisurely weekends. Instead of cooking, childcare, etc. etc. etc.

But you know, this -- to quote, "third world country" has a space program.  So even there, there are definitely privileged classes, particularly if they are male.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Zorral

[Ser Not Appearing]

5 hours ago, Zorral said:

How does the laundry get done?

I only wash laundry by hand because I'm not ok with people who think a washing machine is the same thing.

[IlyaP]

50 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Most guys, you know, don't bother to notice their moms, sisters, wives, daughters, servants taking care of it.  Like just about everything else. 

The wife and I both do the laundry. I've been vacuuming, cleaning, tidying, dusting, mowing, snow-shovelling, cooking, etc., since I was a wee lad. Wasn't ever the best at cooking, as I can make visually unappealling but hearty food - a chef is one role I shall never hold. But this is the Soviet way - a boy ought to know how to take care of all things around the house - and that includes laundry. Which, honestly, is a relaxing task, including when putting it onto the line to dry and when taking it off. It's quiet, practical, necessary work. 

[IlyaP]

6 minutes ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

I only wash laundry by hand because I'm not ok with people who think a washing machine is the same thing.

Particularly useful when it comes to clothing that's been dyed poorly (eg indigo dye on denim jeans), and you want to make sure it doesn't end up staining other clothing. 

[Heartofice]

12 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

Good for you. Some people don't. 

 

And quite frankly some people would have time to read but they'd rather spend their downtime doing something else and listen to audiobooks while cooking or driving because... why not? You can play a game or watch TV when the kids are in bed and still have read a good book because you listened to it while making dinner. You are saying there's something wrong with that. You are wrong. 

There is nothing wrong with it. If you have kids you will know that time to yourself is incredibly precious. You might be lucky one night after the kids have gone to bed and all the housework is done and you get an hour to yourself, an hour is an over estimation too.

Some people might be able to turn everything off and read a book, but often you are far too exhausted from the day to do that and require something less mentally taxing.

That’s why audiobooks are a godsend for a lot of people, you can fit them around your day. If you are driving or having to do chores you can turn one on for a little bit. 

[IlyaP]

23 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

There is nothing wrong with it. If you have kids you will know that time to yourself is incredibly precious. You might be lucky one night after the kids have gone to bed and all the housework is done and you get an hour to yourself, an hour is an over estimation too.

Some people might be able to turn everything off and read a book, but often you are far too exhausted from the day to do that and require something less mentally taxing.

That’s why audiobooks are a godsend for a lot of people, you can fit them around your day. If you are driving or having to do chores you can turn one on for a little bit. 

Or if you're going blind. Or are born with visual impairments. Or simply process information differently, due to being neurodivergent. There are any number of reasons, that abled people just fail to consider because they've conflated statistics with socialised ideas of normalcy and attached a value judgement to it - which is part of why there's been an incredibly hard push in Australia to replace stigmagic and othering language with more thoughtful, inclusive terminologies. 

[Ser Not Appearing]

Here's my real opinion:

It's merely a manner of absorbing the written word. In this case, it's spoken aloud and processed, including all nuance added by the narrator, and not viewed and independently processed / interpreted in full by the "reader." These two things are truly distinct and differences may well exist but I don't tend to think it's meaningful beyond an academic sense.

This is similar to how people learn in a classroom. Yes, various sensory methods have distinction and augment knowledge with different emphasis but the end result is that one learns. It really doesn't matter what the process was, as it relates to the subject matter.

I acknowledge that "read" does have a specific meaning and that's a big part (I think) of the reason people get uptight about things. Reading is a skill and listening maybe doesn't interact with that skill in the same way, plus it's pedantically distinct ... but there's also a significant convenience in using "read" to refer to audiobooks as well because, again, the distinction isn't meaningful in terms of someone having absorbed the story or being capable of having enjoyed it or discussing it. If I'm looking to discuss the book or share my love of the author -the vast majority of all conversations I'll ever engage in regarding the word "read" - this distinction not only doesn't matter but would be pointless to note.

And, no, I'm not concerned whether or not people who enjoy stories can literally read. And, not, even if I was, I don't think being exact with language about reading versus listening to an audiobook is going to make a difference in the world. Perhaps that's my own short-sightedness

[Zorral]

19 hours ago, IlyaP said:

The wife and I both do the laundry.

What's wrong whitch ya?  Servants are supposed to do that stuff, so you all can relax!   

Partner and I are very privileged -- not only do we have access to All the Entertainments in All the Formats (and we even know personally a whole lot of the people who create them, as well as all the academic, scholarly, research access (well, that tends to come with the Job -- I did say, PRIVILEGED!), we have all the internets, we have great power, we have A/C in this terrible time, AND air purifiers, we travel.  However, the amount of time we spend on those homely tasks of housekeeping and cooking is tremendous, and this is without having kids.  When I was younger, not yet on this Job, between commuting, working 9-5, and trying to keep the housekeeping going, and all the rest, while also writing/trying to write -- I had little time to read except on the subway, and my lunch hour.  Audio books would have been such a help in those days (and of course we didn't have internet yet either)

When we were locked down in March 2020 -- for at least a year all I did all day was housekeeping, and not only for us, but for people who couldn't, people who know how to cook, didn't even know how to clean their places or do laundry -- they outsourced everything. -- or were too fragile/elderly to do it on their own, and their regular support system couldn't get to them.

O yah, and learning how to zoom, as we ried to keep up with the Job in some form, particularly the students REALLY NEEDING MORE THAN EVER online research skills and reading.

I was so exhausted that year I was only read too, pretty much, and watched stuff on screen for an hour or so before going to sleep.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Zorral

[dog-days]

I think audiobooks/podcasts might be devalued compared to silent reading because of the idea that they're consumed with less attention, as a kind of white noise in the background to other tasks. 

And sometimes for me that's been true, but at other times the reverse has been the case. When I used to go jogging regularly along the canal, before I discovered it was messing up my leg, I remember the feeling of listening to audiobooks with an almost white hot level of absorption, a kind of level of focus I don't often get with reading. 

[Tears of Lys]

Yes.

[Freshwater Spartan]

To me audiobooks count as reading. I often pick up more details from the audio book because the narrator forces me to slow down.  I have a real tendency to speed read at the cost of losing minute information. I do have to be mindful to focus though. If my mind wanders too much its time to turn off the audio book and turn on the music.

I suppose sight reading is more difficult and there is more of a sense of accomplishment when finishing a book that way. But that is no big deal. Most audio books I read tend to be lightweight stuff anyway. Still hate to say audio is not reading though. Who knows? Someday I might go blind. If that happens audio might be the only kind of reading I do. Will I cease to be a reader then?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I lean towards no, technically it's not reading, but that doesn't make it a lesser format and some people retain information better by listening to an audiobook and/or just don't have the time. Anything that gets people to engage more with literature is a win in my book. 

[BigFatCoward]

Who has the time for audiobooks?  People speak about 1/5 of the speed i read.  Fuck that shit.  

That being said as someone who used to read about 75 books a year, and read 2 last year due to kids being pricks, however you consume literature that works for you is the way forward.  

 

[Heartofice]

11 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Who has the time for audiobooks?  People speak about 1/5 of the speed i read.  Fuck that shit.  

 

It's all about multitasking for me, being able to listen to something when I'm driving or doing chores, or going for a run is a godsend. Obviously you can put the reading speed on 2x or something but that sounds insane and I can't stand it. 

I'm not sure it counts as reading per se because I think that itself is about focus and audiobooks are almost the opposite, they are about not having to focus. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

I sometimes crank the speed up a hair to between 1.25x and 1.5x normal speed depending on the narrator if it feels like it's dragging, but most of the time I really enjoy the slow story telling of audio narration.  

I also think there's something missing from the enjoyment of literature if you reduce it to strictly the act of physically reading by sight.  When we read the Odyssey or Iliad or read a Shakespeare play we are NOT experiencing the art as it was intended, not in its fullest form. It's still valuable: would you think any less of someone's opinion discussing say The Crucible if they'd never seen it performed, but had read it?  I wouldn't, personally.  

My girlfriend and I have been reading books out loud, alternating chapters, and there are some writers whose prose is intentionally lyrical or poetic and has rhythm.  These writers have pretty clearly made some choices as to how their text should sound.  Must we ignore that because it's not as apparent when simply reading it silently to yourself?  

This was really apparent reading out loud Beloved, Mason & Dixon, and James Baldwin.  It seems quite limiting to ignore or diminish literature's roots in oral and theatrical storytelling in  order to establish a hierarchical structure of True Reading which as far as I understand it is largely based on the perceived (not actual) amount of engagement someone is having with a work of art.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by Larry of the Lawn

[Gorn]

I can read incredibly quickly, but when I read books for pleasure, I intentionally slow myself down and subvocalize the text. Sometimes I even quietly vocalize when I'm reading alone or with my wife. It gives me a better feel and appreciation for the prose, and helps me remember stuff from books better. I don't do it with every book, if the prose or writing in general is not good I just rush through them. In my favorite books, I internally assign characters clear and distinct voices and even accents of their own.

Could I read more books if I gave up on that way of reading? Yeah, sure. Do I want to? No.