US Politics: Hell Yes THEY Were Trying to Overthrow the Government

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So Zorral how much did you give?

[LongRider]

Everything is a grift with this crowd.  Everything. 

[Zorral]

40 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

So Zorral how much did you give?

One counterfeit red confederate cent.

BTW, the lyrics of That Song include racist / welfare queen dog whistles, among other things. As in ye olden daze of the anti-slavery / abolition war, everything that went wrong down there, including the incredibly deep debt the slaveowners were in to northerners and Europeans was the fault of -- non slave owning northerners who wouldn't leave them alone to abuse, torture, whip, sell, rape their slaves in peace, preventing them from expanding the whole filthy disgusting set of beliefs and practices everywhere, even where it most certainly was not wanted -- on economic, political and moral grounds.  Just like they are doing with abortion prohibition and all the rest of the war on women and all the other Others right now.

And southern workers complaining about the rate of their factory pay?  They voted to be a 'right to work' state, which means no unions.  Without union there is only shit for pay for that work in those places.  It is known.

We are in a Civil War on all fronts right this minute and have been for quite a while, and it's only getting worse day-by-day.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Zorral

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

22 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Everything is a grift with this crowd.  Everything. 

Fans of Donald Trump are painfully gullible.  That or they are painfully malicious.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

14 minutes ago, Zorral said:

One counterfeit red confederate cent.

One might be tempted to say value for money, but on the other hand...

You get to enjoy the drama without paying the actors, you ma'am...

Ah, I'll let Betty White do the explaining.

 

 

[Gaston de Foix]

6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

J. first started selling weed, and not in small amounts, when he was around 16. He did so his entire life until he died a few years ago in his early 70's. In between he sold cocaine, heroin and acid for decades. Probably some other shit too. He ran every con you could imagine if he thought he could get away with it. He was a crooked landlord, an ambulance chasing lawyer and tax fraud. And he was violent towards women. This is just the sliver I know about him because we barely had a relationship. But he would brag about it and more during the rare times I'd see him after my parents got divorced when I was 10 (he was never around prior to that as well). He was the black sheep from an otherwise wealthy and prominent family. For example, when I was a kid at synagogue an older woman told me he was known as "the bad one." He fought a rabbi when he was a teenager and nearly got into a fight with one on the day of my Bar Mitzvah. Idk exactly what classes he taught, but he was a criminal defense lawyer so it would be in that area of the law.

It's depressing to have this kind of person as a father, if I can even call him that, but my family over the years has helped to compensate for it. It was pretty funny watching them try to find nice things to say about him after he died. 

 

That's a lot.  I'm sorry you had to go through that.  Perhaps it also explains, in part, some of your low opinion of lawyers.  I'm kinda amazed that he managed to keep his law license through all of this and/or didn't go to prison, although perhaps he did.  That's some Saul Goodman level shit, although it sounds like your dad had many more vices than Jimmy McGill.   

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

Obviously he has no evidence of fraud, but does he realise that even if he did, that wouldn't exonerate him of the charges against him? Two wrongs don't make a right. Even if the result was fraudulent, corrupt attempts to overturn it would still be a crime.

This is all in furtherance of the the "I genuinely believed there was fraud and I was the legitimate winner of the 2020 election so no corrupt intent" defense he's going to be running.  

Let's not waste time paying attention to the performance.  It's all aimed towards jury nullification.  

[Zorral]

They conspired to commit election fraud in their attempts to 'prove' election fraud.

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, Zorral said:

They conspired to commit election fraud in their attempts to 'prove' election fraud.

 

So you are saying there WAS election fraud?

[Gaston de Foix]

24 minutes ago, Zorral said:

We are in a Civil War on all fronts right this minute and have been for quite a while, and it's only getting worse day-by-day.

Little disturbed by this rhetoric however well-intentioned.  Polarization benefits Trumpists and the Republicans.  It will take decades to undo the harm they have wrought to this country, but they are a minority and are losing on almost every front in the political arena. 

[Zorral]

I am saying those who howled the winner of the 2020 POTUS election committed fraud, conspired to commit fraud, to steal the election, just as the RICO case lays out.

[Zorral]

3 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Little disturbed by this rhetoric however well-intentioned.  Polarization benefits Trumpists and the Republicans.  It will take decades to undo the harm they have wrought to this country, but they are a minority and are losing on almost every front in the political arena. 

You're a little disturbed?  How do you think the people against whom this war is literally being waged feel?  For starters we feel a whole lot more than a 'little disturbed.'  Not to mention how many have already been murdered, and how their families and other loved ones feel, not to mention the maimed -- not leaving out the sufferers of Long Covid either.  There is NOTHING in this country that hasn't been attacked by Them for Their war on us.  And you do see every day in Those states it gets worse.

Did you check out on Faux, which I linked to above, Gingrich's response to the Georgia RICO indictments?  He literally says "This is civil war just like the lead-up to Fort Sumter."

IIRC you don't live here.  You don't know how things work here, or what it is like at all.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Zorral

[Gaston de Foix]

1 minute ago, Zorral said:

You're a little disturbed?  How do you think the people against whom this war is literally being waged feel?  

Furious. Desperate. Horrified.  But blowing up the country is not the answer.  Secession is not the answer.  Civil war is not the answer.  Like you do recognize that your rhetoric exactly mirrors those on the right like Tim Poole who consistently talk about civil war right? This is not a stupid both-sides argument.  This is about being smart.  Abortion rights have won on the ballot pretty much across the country. 

Republican excesses have the potential to create a great new realignment in 2024.  Just as in 2020, we took back the country, passed climate change legislation (finally!), provided aid for COVID, and kicked Trump out of the White House.  We can do it again.  The majority of the country has always been with you, and it's close to a super-majority now across the board.  

[Gaston de Foix]

13 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Did you check out on Faux, which I linked to above, Gingrich's response to the Georgia RICO indictments?  He literally says "This is civil war just like the lead-up to Fort Sumter."

IIRC you don't live here.  You don't know how things work here, or what it is like at all.

Sorry, I missed this addendum.  That was precisely my point.  It doesn't disturb you to agree with Gingrich?

I live in Washington DC.  Don't you live in NYC? 

[LongRider]

4 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Sorry, I missed this addendum.  That was precisely my point.  It doesn't disturb you to agree with Gingrich?

I live in Washington DC.  Don't you live in NYC? 

Gingrich is an old gasbag; he passes plenty of wind, but does anyone really listen to him anymore?  

[mormont]

47 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

This is all in furtherance of the the "I genuinely believed there was fraud and I was the legitimate winner of the 2020 election so no corrupt intent" defense he's going to be running. 

Right, but that defence doesn't work, is my point.

It doesn't matter what Trump believed or what his motive was in committing crimes. And in any case if his motive did matter, it has to be things that he knew at the time. It can't be something he only found out about later! But that's what he's saying now, that he's only just discovered this proof.

I know it's all chaff, flailing around as is Trump's normal M.O., and that logic and reason don't matter to him or his supporters as much as vague feelings and warm bullshit. But still.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The news conference will be held in Moscow.

Seriously, what other options does he have besides pulling a “Snowden”. Also I get to win my bet with @Tywin et al.. 

Your title will belong to me just like Kal and Jace's already do. Still batting 100% on these bets. My Herman Cain quote will never be lost. RIP shucky ducky.

42 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

That's a lot.  I'm sorry you had to go through that.  Perhaps it also explains, in part, some of your low opinion of lawyers.  I'm kinda amazed that he managed to keep his law license through all of this and/or didn't go to prison, although perhaps he did.  That's some Saul Goodman level shit, although it sounds like your dad had many more vices than Jimmy McGill.   

Such is life. I've enjoyed a lot more than others in most areas. You can't ask for everything. But no, he is not why I have a low opinion of lawyers. I find the entire construct to be a fraud. Laws are created by people with power to control those who lack it while not really holding themselves accountable (and they're easy to corrupt). This is pretty obvious when you look at human history across societies. Does that mean all lawyers, judges and cops are bad? No. But it's pretty obvious so many of them abuse their power. Like I've said before, this is true of every large institution. Religion, banking, entertainment, farming, etc. Add whatever you want to the list. I'll never understand why people pretend otherwise. Maybe it makes them sleep better at night.

And yes, he was very much the Saul Goodman type. For all his sins he did teach me some cruel lessons about the world. They were cold, but he wasn't wrong. 

[Kalbear]

I do wish someone would beat the drum loudly and respond to the notion that these indictments are attempting to stop Trump from running by saying, point blank, that anyone can run for POTUS, even when behind bars, and these stop absolutely nothing.

I know that that won't matter - in a sea of things that won't convince people that's an especially salty drop - but damnit, it makes me annoyed that so much umbrage is based on the idea that these trials would actually stop him from running legally. It's not like in other countries where you get banned for 10+ years if you commit a felony. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

7 hours ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

Watching the political journalist class trip over themselves again and again trying to wrap their brains around the next iteration of ignorant, misplaced white working class anger being manipulated and boosted by capitalists and right wing cranks... Is there anything more predictable?  This is the same stupid, lazy, shit they've been trotting out on repeat since Reagan.  

At least mix it up, and give him a bespoke hammer-fucking-dulcimer or some such shit. 

 

True. But it’s still important to grapple with the problem. Otherwise you get potential political allies being lulled into thinking overlooking a group’s reactionary tendencies or policiy prescriptions is realpolitik, that they just need to zero in the tiniest bit of agreement they do have on an existence of a problem for the potential of worthwhile collaboration. Rfk is to the right of Biden on really most if not every issue, and more importantly worse than Biden on his policy solutions. But All he has to say is “corporations bad!” And people even on the left wil clap and say this guy is worth listening to.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Your title will belong to me just like Kal and Jace's already do. Still batting 100% on these bets. My Herman Cain quote will never be lost. RIP shucky ducky.

Although, our bet was about the boxes, not what came after. I still don’t think he’ll get any jail time for that. 

Fine print, Mellon Farmer.