Gertrude Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Werthead said: but I did rationalise it as some of his last-life Lews Therin training coming through subconsciously. Same, but I don't think that was actually in the books. It's also not what Sanderson was arguing :p He did mention that Rand is a fast learner, so perhaps that where Lews comes in, but Lan is one of the BEST fighters in the world, so the training is adequate. Yeah, no. Arakasi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Ditto, LTT had to be a factor. I don't have a problem with Lan beating Demandred even without Demandred being tired. There's only so much that added centuries are going to give you, and on any given Sunday, as they say... Wouter and Corvinus85 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 21 minutes ago, Werthead said: I always thought Rand hitting Blademaster level in a couple of months was pure bullshit, but I did rationalise it as some of his last-life Lews Therin training coming through subconsciously. With centuries to practice with the blade, Lews/Rand and any of the Forsaken should be able to kill any modern-day "blademaster" in seconds (Lan beating Demandred was a bit cheesy for that, but at least they had Demandred get winded by fighting half a dozen lower-tier characters first, which kinda makes it work). Also, ta'veren. I really do appreciate that Jordan made plot armor an actual mechanic of his story. Wouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 41 minutes ago, Werthead said: I always thought Rand hitting Blademaster level in a couple of months was pure bullshit, but I did rationalise it as some of his last-life Lews Therin training coming through subconsciously. With centuries to practice with the blade, Lews/Rand and any of the Forsaken should be able to kill any modern-day "blademaster" in seconds (Lan beating Demandred was a bit cheesy for that, but at least they had Demandred get winded by fighting half a dozen lower-tier characters first, which kinda makes it work). 20 minutes ago, Ran said: Ditto, LTT had to be a factor. I don't have a problem with Lan beating Demandred even without Demandred being tired. There's only so much that added centuries are going to give you, and on any given Sunday, as they say... Didn't Lan sheathe the sword to beat Demandred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 I'm a little curious how everyone speculates the show will end if Judkins et al is told to wrap it up by season 4 or 5? Season 3 is a lock, and of course the worse case scenario for the show is Amazon just cuts it off there, but what if Judkins is given a full season or two to end things in a way that fits his vision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Rocks fall, everybody dies. Corvinus85 and IFR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) Not that hard really. There is thousands of pages of filler after book five/six. Let’s say it’s five seasons it’s not that hard to wrap up books 7-14 in a season. Obv massively rushed but just have cleaning of saidin, killing remaining forsaken, white tower stuff and last battle. Focus on Rand and Egwene. Nyneave gets to cleanse saidin. Mat gets to lead battles, Perrin probably doesn’t do much but he didn’t really in the books so much stuff with him was with disposable characters like Faile and the Shaido. Edited October 14, 2023 by Arakasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 If we're assuming we're at the end of TSR at the end of season 3 and they're told "you're getting 5 seasons at 8 episodes each, no more, there will be no further negotiation" then I think you'd have Rand open season 4 with Rand taking Cairhien (or Tear), Dumai's Wells in ep5 or 6 and finish on cleansing saidin. I don't think you can fit in the full rebel tower plot this streamlined but you do have Egwene back in the tower and being punished at the end of the season too. Season 5 you probably open with the Seanchan attacking the tower with Eg getting her moment of triumph, then have the Verin reveal after that for the sake of season pacing - the tower raid is a strong opener. Meanwhile Rand has some form of his Semirhage and Graendal moments. Mid season climax on the mountain and I guess you've got to have the tower replace Elaida with Egwene but it's going to feel especially rushed, then I think you probably have 3 episodes for the last battle itself and the denouement. It's ugly but I don't think there's a non ugly way to compress it the hard. You definitely don't give true death to Hopper. We can get that much at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, IFR said: I'm a little curious how everyone speculates the show will end if Judkins et al is told to wrap it up by season 4 or 5? Season 3 is a lock, and of course the worse case scenario for the show is Amazon just cuts it off there, but what if Judkins is given a full season or two to end things in a way that fits his vision? At this time we don't actually know how the Dark One is staying sealed. All the seals were broken to free the Forsaken, but the DO clearly wasn't set loose. So if they continue to keep that in their pocket, should the show be cut short, they could do the Last Battle in whatever manner they want, a small confrontation between just Rand and the DO with the other major characters holding off the remaining Forsaken. No big battles. Will it be disappointing? Absolutely. Will it suck? Depends on how consistent they can keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigei Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 This season was better and I enjoyed it, but it's still not as good as I had hoped. I'll still watch the 3rd season though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 12 hours ago, Corvinus85 said: At this time we don't actually know how the Dark One is staying sealed. All the seals were broken to free the Forsaken, but the DO clearly wasn't set loose. So if they continue to keep that in their pocket, should the show be cut short, they could do the Last Battle in whatever manner they want, a small confrontation between just Rand and the DO with the other major characters holding off the remaining Forsaken. No big battles. Will it be disappointing? Absolutely. Will it suck? Depends on how consistent they can keep it. I kind of wonder this myself. Perhaps instead of rushing everything in the next 8 books, Judkins chooses to fully diverge from the books and create his own ending? Perhaps in this telling of the Wheel Lanfear does succeed in turning Rand to the dark side, and Egwene has been spun out as a replacment Chosen One to take on the fallen Dragon. It would actually fit in very nicely with how the show has done things so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 20 hours ago, IFR said: If they're cutting the Finns for time reasons, how are they going to make room for an original plot to cleanse the dagger in season 3? Already there is a lot that needs to be done. Again, the books are not at all a reliable guide for future events in the show, but presumably in some form we'll have: 1) Perrin possibly meeting Faile (unless he's intended to match with Aviendha instead or whatever they plan). I think Perrin-Faile will definitely happen. Rand-Aviendha will happen (foreshadowed by Aviendha identifying Rand as the Car'a'Can), but maybe later than Rand-Elayne. 2) Perrin going to the Two Rivers. Foreshadowed. 3) Rand going to the Waste. Foreshadowed. 4) Potentially Rand getting Callandor? It hasn't been mentioned in the show, so I doubt this. Integral to final plot resolution, so I think it will happen. Just saved for later seasons. 5) The overthrow of Siuan. Unless the showrunners intend for her to team up with Elaida against Moiraine, or something along that line. I think it will also happen. 6) Elayne romancing Rand? Will happen, and foreshadowed. 7) Nynaeve and Elayne off on their adventure to hunt Black Ajah, and potentially deal with Moghedien. 8) Whatever additional scenes are required to pad out the screentime for Moiraine and Lan. Perhaps this could be the cleansing plot line? My predictions above, FWIW. IFR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) Iirc Faile has been cast already which makes sense. So yeah Faile will be there just not the multi book annoying plot and very likely no Berelain. Only question to me really about season three is the stopping point. Book four is the best book so is it just going to be one season for one book or are they going to push into TFOH and say end at Cairhein. Edited October 14, 2023 by Arakasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, IFR said: I kind of wonder this myself. Perhaps instead of rushing everything in the next 8 books, Judkins chooses to fully diverge from the books and create his own ending? I often see people making predictions that vary from the books so wildly that I think they can't be in good faith (not this comment specifically, just in general). So real question here - do you actually think he would just do his own thing and not try to honor the book material? I get that there have been big changes, but they are not as big as people sometimes make them out to be and it tracks with the books pretty well, just not in the exact details IMO. SpaceChampion, Arakasi and Poobah 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 54 minutes ago, Gertrude said: I often see people making predictions that vary from the books so wildly that I think they can't be in good faith (not this comment specifically, just in general). So real question here - do you actually think he would just do his own thing and not try to honor the book material? I get that there have been big changes, but they are not as big as people sometimes make them out to be and it tracks with the books pretty well, just not in the exact details IMO. Yes, I do. I suppose the dissonace is that you cannot see the changes thus far being so divorced from the original material that it seems like a completely different story, and this speculation I'm making does, and therefore you do not view the speculation as reasonable. For me, the experience is different. I'm not wildly exaggerating when I say the show to me is as if someone heard a sketch description of the books a few years ago, and then decided to make a show of what they remember of the description. The show in my mind has very little to do with the books. And so to me, if the showrunners are time pressed, this seems like a reasonable speculation. It doesn't mean I think it will happen; it simply means I think it's a plausible avenue for the show to go down. And it really does fit with what has happened in the show so far, in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Regarding the 8 episode format, I'd point out that Apple's high budget shows like Foundation, For All Mankind, and the upcoming Monarch: Legacy of Monsters all have 10 episodes per season. Monarch is likely going to have some monumental CGI and other VFX. Apple is filthy rich but so is Amazon. There really is no excuse to not allow your epic fantasy or SF shows room to breathe. IlyaP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigei Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 The Moghedien part was cheesy. I hope the next bits are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 I need to ask about this - what are the chances of condensing Rand's harem from the books into one woman - most likely, Elayne? The inclusion of Elayne at the tower, prominence of actress during press tour, makes me believe that it is more likely to keep just Elayne as romantic interest, especially due to the popularity of Lanfear and the fact Rand and Egwene are still semi-connected? I honestly have no idea what they'll do with Min, as her story completely failed IMO, and as for Aviendha she could be the window to Aiel world and culture. Just a thought. Wanted to know if anyone had given it any thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Iirc in season one when he met Min I think they hinted at the 3 women thing. So I don’t think they’re changing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 I also don't think they'd have spent so much time foregrounding Alanna's poly group if it wasn't going to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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