Lady Dustin and revenge

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

It is human nature to want revenge but some of the characters carry this too far.  Lady Dustin tells a chilling story to Reek.  She wants to feed Eddard's bones to her dogs.  The goal is sickening.  Barbrey is not alone, however.  Lady Catelyn, Arya Stark, and Doran Martell are just as motivated by that negative emotion driving them towards revenge.  Innocents like Dareon, Jingle Bells, and you could argue, Quentyn are the undeserving victims of their lust for revenge.  For the four, I do not see a happy ending. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by James Fenimore Cooper XXII

[James Steller]

I feel like Barbrey just said that to Theon to cover her tracks in case the Boltons make Theon tell them about what he discussed with Lady Dustin. She is playing a dangerous game just like Wyman Manderly, I’m sure of it. Maybe she does resent Eddard to a point, but she clearly hates Ramsay and the Freys. She will not go down with them.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

Lololololololololol. Yes, Lady Catelyn, a woman who spends..most of the books asking her son to make peace with the Lannisters. At several times mentions that killing the Lannisters won't bring back Eddard, etc. That character. Good lord, do people hate Catelyn and make up reasons to make her worse. 

Catelyn Stark makes a threat in desperation, rank desperation. Flight of fight moment of pure human adrenaline pumping. She then follows through with her threat. It's one of the most heart wrenching scenes in this book, and people just...hate Catelyn Stark, so they somehow make it about Jinglebell and not the fact that she just watched not only her son, but an entire room full of people at a wedding get murdered. I am honestly so tired of seeing this take. It's bogus to be blunt. You know most murders actually take place like Catelyn's actions. Spur of the moment, not thought out. And many of those murderers go on to regret their actions. Do you know who DOESN'T regret their actions, people who carefully plan the murders. Yet, people in this forum act like "acts of desperation" murders are worse than planned out murders, which is crazed. In the modern day, we literally charge them differently (with the latter being treated more harshly, with larger sentences). 

Lady Catelyn being on this list is so ridiculous as to be laughable. You just hate Catelyn. Stop freaking stretching. 

Also characters actually obsessed with revenge you didn't mention : Tyrion Lannister, Tywin Lannister (the Reynes and Castameres..was basically just revenge for "laughing" at house Lannister. That is why he did it)

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

7 minutes ago, James Steller said:

I feel like Barbrey just said that to Theon to cover her tracks in case the Boltons make Theon tell them about what he discussed with Lady Dustin. She is playing a dangerous game just like Wyman Manderly, I’m sure of it. Maybe she does resent Eddard to a point, but she clearly hates Ramsay and the Freys. She will not go down with them.

I actually agree with this, but I have no proof, so I didn't refute it. But I think Barbrey Dustin (as well as Catelyn Tully) do not belong in this thread at all. 

[SaffronLady]

1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

an entire room full of people at a wedding

An entire room full of people at her brother's wedding, consisting of Catelyn's family, childhood acquaintances, and people she came to know after she married into the North.

Edited November 3, 2023 by SaffronLady
Context is provided for Cooper's sake, not LRH's, since obviously Cooper does not get the context of the Red Wedding

[Alester Florent]

7 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

For [Cat], I do not see a happy ending. 

*falls off chair*

You don't say!

[Northern Sword]

Revenge is revenge, whether planned or not. Some people are emotionally reactionary, some sit on it and it festers.

In Lady Dustin's case, she has held on to this for a long time. I'm sure she has made a thousand different plans over the years if revenge is her main goal. Or is this a cover story for something else.

We do not yet see or know about all of her motivations as it feels like she is hidings something. There are a few puzzles that I cant wait to find out about, and she is one of them. 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Oh come on. I'm pretty sure Catelyn Stark is going to have a happy ending.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

11 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Oh come on. I'm pretty sure Catelyn Stark is going to have a happy ending.

This is just my theory but..I think she'll get her throat slit at a wedding

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

11 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Catelyn Stark makes a threat in desperation, rank desperation. Flight of fight moment of pure human adrenaline pumping. She then follows through with her threat. It's one of the most heart wrenching scenes in this book, and people just...hate Catelyn Stark, so they somehow make it about Jinglebell

Yeah, this. They act like Jinglebell was TPTWP and Catelyn doomed humanity by murdering their savior.

11 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Also characters actually obsessed with revenge you didn't mention : Tyrion Lannister, Tywin Lannister (the Reynes and Castameres..was basically just revenge for "laughing" at house Lannister. That is why he did it)

Adding Victarion, the Sand Snakes, Viserys and Cersei. And Robert, who wanted revenge, got it, and was never satisfied.

And Lady Stoneheart is not a representation of who Catelyn was. Lady Stoneheart is the result of bringing the dead back to life instead of letting them rest.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Ser Arthurs Dawn

[LongRider]

11 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

An entire room full of people at her brother's wedding,

Let's not forget the burning of the tents full of Stark banner men that Arya and the Hound saw.  That is where many more were lost and contributed to the North being really pissed off.   Pie anyone?

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

4 hours ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

This is just my theory but..I think she'll get her throat slit at a wedding

Ah, the red smile of happiness. Glad she's going to be ok.

[SaffronLady]

I have to admit I am impressed by how creative some people could get on the ever-ongoing quest of Stark trash-talking. Such as this OP demonstrates.

[Craving Peaches]

Catelyn was clearly not in her right mind at the end, and Lady Stoneheart is not Catelyn, so the idea that Catelyn is obsessed with revenge does not hold much weight.

[SeanF]

The first four sentences of the O/P were reasonable.  Then it became absurd.

[Son of Man]

I feel the need to speak up for Catelyn.  She was a good woman during her life.  The one exception was killing Jinglebells.  The young fellow was an innocent. She got the punishment she lives in now.  But with that one exception she was a good woman most of her life.  She was not in the habit of killing or harming people.  She went insane at the last moment and rage took over.  She should and is being held accountable for the murder.  It's just not fair to label the living Catelyn as vengeful while she was alive.  Lady Stoneheart, on the other hand, is.  I'd say LSH is no longer Catelyn.  It was an awful crime but given suitable time in the hell she is living in.  I'd want her to stop murdering the Freys.  I am hoping for an end to Lady Stoneheart's suffering.  An apt ending for Stoneheart is by Dragon fire after receiving forgiveness from the Dragon Queen. 

Arya, Doran, and Barbrey are indeed header for tragic endings.  They take their emotions too far and will waste many lives in trying to get revenge.  They're so sick they can't judge what's fair anymore. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Son of Man

[SaffronLady]

8 minutes ago, Son of Man said:

I'd want her to stop murdering the Freys.

You mean the Freys that got so many of the people she knew killed and imprisoned her brother? Yeah that sounds fair...

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

19 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

You mean the Freys that got so many of the people she knew killed and imprisoned her brother? Yeah that sounds fair...

Lady Stoneheart is not Catelyn. And I want whatever she is to keep murdering Freys. Until the Freys say : "Hey the Red Wedding was fucked up and we deserve this," I am perfectly fine with their murders. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Lord of Raventree Hall

[SaffronLady]

6 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Listen Lady Stoneheart is nor Catelyn.

Sigh. Have you been in Korea for so long that somehow, "grab-someone-by-the-ear 'listen' " is now polite language for you?

[StarkTullies]

Arya is complicated.  Clearly she is motivated by revenge, but her revenge is targeted.  Cersei and Joffrey were on her list because they specifically wronged her and her family.  Tommen and Jaime are not on her list... she does not lump entire families together as guilty like most other vengeance-driven characters in this story.  She even witnessed the Red Wedding and yet none of the Freys are on her list because she doesn't know the specifics of who was involved.  While I think Arya's story will shift drastically when she returns to Westeros and sees what revenge has done to Lady Stoneheart, that's only my prediction, and criticizing Arya's desire for revenge is fair... but there are so many better characters to criticize.

As many people have pointed out, Lady Stoneheart is not Catelyn Stark.  Lady Stoneheart is a vengeance-driven monster, of course.  Catelyn Stark was not.  She had fantasies of strangling Cersei Lannister for what she did to Ned, but did she want war against the Lannisters?  No, her entire focus was trying to stop the war, to stop vengeance, etc.  The special circumstance of Jinglebell's death has already been pointed out, and I don't need to repeat.

There are many revenge-obsessed characters, so it is extremely odd to choose Barbrey Dustin and Doran Martell as your examples.  First, I don't believe a word that Lady Dustin said to Theon: "Reek" was Ramsay's pet, and you think she's going to tell Reek that she is conspiring to overthrow Ramsay?  She might hold a grudge against a couple dead Starks, but it is insane to think she hates Ned over funeral arrangements more than she hates Ramsay for murdering her beloved nephew.  Let's say I believe that Lady Dustin is pro-Bolton (she isn't): what "vengeful" things has she done?  Made an order to prevent Ned's bones from returning north?  We're not talking about Red Wedding vengeance here.

Doran Martell wanted the downfall of Tywin Lannister, but he contributed nothing to achieve that.  His nieces and daughter may want to start a war, but he is pragmatic enough to know that war is a bad idea.  The only thing he has actually done is passively plan to form an alliance with the Targaryens... a plan I'm a little surprised the pro-Targaryen original poster would criticize.  Blame Arianne or the Sand Snakes or Oberyn for revenge, but so far Doran's desire for revenge has amounted to no harm except to Quentyn, and that was due to Quentyn's bad judgment rather than "revenge".  We're not talking about Red Wedding vengeance here.

Speaking of the Red Wedding, the original poster previously started a thread titled "Hope for the Frey family".  The most violent and evil (and to quote the original post, "sickening") act of revenge that has happened in this story so far.  Barbrey and Doran and Living Catelyn are sickening in their "quest for revenge", but the Freys deserve hope?