Watch, Watched, Watching: From Scott Civil Wars to Christmas Movie Wars

[Veltigar]

Saw Past Lives in cinema and it is indeed a very beautiful film. Not as good as In The Mood for Love (but very few films are), but certainly a kindred Gen Z interpretation of the same type of story. Good performances by everyone involved and well-developed.

I also watched Reacher's latest episode. This show definitely got dumber and it makes me feel sad. It also doesn't help that I can't binge through this, as you notice the stupid much more easily if you have to watch every episode on a weekly basis.

On 12/31/2023 at 1:18 AM, williamjm said:

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I doubt any competent villain uses their own name when hiring a hit-man.

I think Swann probably got wind of what his boss was plotting and tried to investigate, bringing in his old colleagues to help.

 

I was kind of hoping that the incompetence 

Spoiler

of the hitmen at the funeral was intentional. Like, Swann having provided them with rifles which can't hit anything or filling the magazines with blanks.

Since that didn't happen, I totally agree that Swann isn't a traitor. The guy literally took a bullet for Reacher. I'd be impressed if the show turned him into a traitor.

 

On 12/31/2023 at 4:32 AM, dbunting said:

I agree

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I have a feeling there is a rat amongst them though. Dixon would be my guess if there is one. She appeared at just the time they needed her. Either that or she is gonna get killed. He can't have a love interest out there long term, so she is a baddie or dead meat. Or I am just looking for more than is there.

 

Spoiler

If there is a rat amongst the special investigators, it must be the knife guy. This show enjoys its formula a lot and he's shown to have been shifty and untrustworthy in the past, which means he has a high chance of still being that way (as in the last season, where the righteous were always righteous and the shady were always shady), especially now that he's got private school tuition to pay for.  

Further "emotive evidence" would be in his choice of weaponry. Switchblades are often coded as treacherous. He's also the one with the least warm relationship to Reacher, which is something that this show also uses as a sign of someone being virtuous or not (which is also why Dixon is off my list of subjects, since they are pretty close).

I'm also not convinced that Dixon is slated to die. I feel like Reacher's chemistry with Roscoe was stronger and they didn't end up fridging her either last season. I guess the good ones will all survive and bid each other farewell at the end of the season as always.

 

Edited January 3 by Veltigar

[Isis]

Watched S2 of Wheel of Time over New Year. OOF. I think I gave up the books after about four of them as they were riddled with problems. To call them a poor man's LOTR would be a huge compliment which they frankly are unworthy of. Out of curiosity I watched the first season. I thought that maybe they might do something new onnscreen with magic users, but no, it's still just people looking constipated while waving their hands around in a mystical way.  At least they didn't include the braid-tugging though, a slight improvement on the source material. The gulf between the Two Rivers lot and the rest of the actors in the show in terms of performance is too big to ignore. Especially Egwene. I kept waiting for her to complete a scene that wasn't cringe-inducing. The fact that her role requires her additionally to wave her hands around in a mystical way is painful and I find myself having to look away from the screen at times when she is on it. 

How many seasons of this are they hoping to do? It seems incredibly convoluted already. Again, taking the most cliched bits of fantasy door-stoppers and seemingly not bothering to do anything to improve them. You can practically hear the apostrophes in the proper names being spoken.

[Zorral]

Saltburn (2023) AP.  Gads. this was a slog.  Maybe I’m so familiar with the tropes of class in private educational institutions which provide the ruling class for all the institutions from monarchy to military – and the universities themselves -- and the figure who isn’t part of that getting taken magically by One of Them.  Or maybe it’s because these people are useless and without any intrinsic interest or actual character or personality, not persons, merely 'ironic' cut-out puppets, who are only their class.

Iit’s not shocking that on social media it has been noticed by so many that so many of those who love this movie officially hate women. Ollie certainly does.

The only two interesting scenes in this smug, see how clever we are mess (nope!, not clever, certainly not droll!)  were both ripped/influenced/whatever by many previous flix –

Spoiler

Ollie and Venetia her menstrual blood, vampire—he says he’s a vampire – her head falling back, neck exposed, classic vampiric taking of the virgin, and the final sequence as Oliie dances around the house like Hugh Grant dances around as Prime Minister at #10 in Love Actually – except naked, and Ollie naked is as drab and dreary as Ollie in his clothes.

 

Edited January 3 by Zorral

[dbunting]

14 hours ago, Veltigar said:

 

 

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I'm also not convinced that Dixon is slated to die. I feel like Reacher's chemistry with Roscoe was stronger and they didn't end up fridging her either last season. I guess the good ones will all survive and bid each other farewell at the end of the season as always.

 

Roscoe vs Dixon

Spoiler

Dixon is a long term infatuation, he romantically liked her from the start of the team and has continued to like her, want her. Roscoe was convenient, there and someone he respected.  Dixon probably won't die, maybe she goes back to the BF.

I agree about switchblade guy but he seems too obvious.

BTW, as to the season getting dumb, welcome to Reacher! It's just big dumb fun. No true hard to figure out mystery, very little development. Reacher steps off bus, helps someone getting bullied, killing ensues, Reacher leaves.

[horangi]

Binged the Boche/Boche:Legacy series over the last couple months.  Overall, better than most detective series if not on the same level as The Wire or The Shield (despite having so many of the same actors.)  First couple seasons seemed to be overly used crime stories but fun.  Middle seasons really hit their stride, though at least binging, seemed to have to too much tragedy surrounding the central characters. I'd like more stories that didn't involve the protagonists constantly battling their inner demons or character flaws- the interpersonal drama and exploring feelings gets in the way of the crime solving!   The two Legacy seasons I think have been my least favorite:

Spoiler

The switch to being a PI took away a lot of the inter-departmental fun. I also feel that Boche has gone from being a righteous pursuer of justice that sometimes crosses the line to really kinda a bad guy- and I am not sure if that is what was intended by the script/books.  Also, the hacker support dude has been upgraded to deus ex machina level of problem solver which made it a bit too easy for the team to technobabble their way out of a challenge rather than be clever.

One thing that was interesting was the level of real-world products/commercial buildings/names filmed in the series.  I know some of it is product placement (Fat Tire, In-N-Out) but there are a lot of other shots that I am not so sure (e.g. there is an ad for Andor very briefly shown in the latest season, lots of large banks and corporations, and Feinstein is name dropped in an unflattering way).  Which made me ask the question- is there anything actually dicey for a movie/show to have real world products/names or is it just the desire to collect additional ad revenue that leads to generations of films having people drinking from generic-'beer' bottles and eating 'chips' brand potato chips instead of using what they can get off the shelf for a buck?

After wrapping that up, I started up on Reacher Season 2, and while Boche often had some creative license, good lord does this season stretch the suspension of belief!  In the first three episodes we've had:
 

Spoiler

A couple of innocent barkeeps have their brains nearly bashed in and their bar trashed with thousands of dollars in damage only for them to be just cool with Reacher when they find out it was just a mistake.

A major defense contractor HQ with apparently no night security.

A house blown up and a dozen baddies shot to death in Queens and yet Reacher has time to chase down a car several blocks away and come back while no one in the nearby community bothers to gawk and no police/emergency services respond? (They even made it seem like the old lady was just kinda walking home or taking out the trash.)

I know that Season 1 had a lot of the same over the top antics, but maybe because of the rural southern town setting it was more believable that there wasn't any capable government services, or uncorrupt officials, or people who act like... normal people.

 

 

Edited January 4 by horangi

[Heartofice]

As I mentioned earlier, Past Lives, is an achingly beautiful movie. A few days after watching it, I keep thinking about it and it make my stomach hurt it’s so emotionally raw.

What I loved most about it was that it was so simple and effective. It has a number of themes that all seem to tie together perfectly well and all compliment each other. The theme of saying goodbye, to others but also to versions of yourself is very strong, that sort of yearning for missed experiences and opportunities, the sense of connection with other people. It all feels tightly put together, but in a way that seems effortless.

In fact as I watched it, I kept trying to analyse quite why I found it so good. In fact there is nothing flashy or extraordinary about much of it, it’s a quiet, subtle film, the performances are fantastic, saying so much without words, but just a look, but not the sort of showy overblown acting that wins Oscar’s. But it’s the simplicity and the way it resonates so powerfully with just the core understanding of life that got me.Lovely.

On the other side I finally watched Across the Spiderverse. I really love much about these movies, mainly the bravery in the animation style and the ability to tell a Miles Morales story and make it feel fresh and interesting.
 

Having said that, where Past Lives is simple, Spiderverse seems very messy. On paper the story is good, it just feels like the plot has a anarchic structure that makes it hard to hold on to and grasp. Maybe I’m old but it just seems to bounce around so much, not just the story, but even the visuals seemed to be trying to overload me at all times and I couldn’t handle it. Maybe there is too much of a good thing.

On top of that the multiverse concept is really just done for me. Where I remember initially raising a chuckle at a Spider Pig in the first movie, here every reference barely raised an eyebrow. There is a point where too many movies are attempting to do the same thing. We are at the Meta commentary period of superhero movies and it’s just less interesting to me. 
 

I’ve seen some people say these are the best Spider-Man movies, but they barely fit in that category for me, they are so self referential that they seem to sit outside. A bit like how I really like Lego Batman, but I’m not saying it’s one of the best Batman movies. I’d like to see a Miles Morales movie that is just about him, less ‘versy’

Edited January 4 by Heartofice

[Veltigar]

9 hours ago, dbunting said:

BTW, as to the season getting dumb, welcome to Reacher! It's just big dumb fun. No true hard to figure out mystery, very little development. Reacher steps off bus, helps someone getting bullied, killing ensues, Reacher leaves.

As @horangi also points out, it does feel like this season got significantly dumber than the first season. It might just be the difference between being able to binge v. having to watch on a weekly basis, but I do think it's more than that. I think this season doesn't really bother hiding the fact that it's basically pulp, whereas the first season was more invested in keeping the stupidity from being too noticeable

Spoiler

Season 1 definitely had its moments (like no one from the outside coming to investigate all these horrific cop murders) or a director of Homeland Security just disappearing and then turning up murdered without anyone from Homeland Security intervening.

But compare that to the list Horangi compiled and its far easier to suspend your disbelief (crooked cops suppressed the news, Joe Reacher was in deep cover, etc.) with the dumb elements from season one than with pipe bombs being blown up in Queens and everyone just leisurely continuing on.

We'll see how it evolves throughout the season. If it stays at this level I think I'd probably still continue watching, but preferably binge season 3 after it finishes.

9 hours ago, dbunting said:

Roscoe vs Dixon

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Dixon is a long term infatuation, he romantically liked her from the start of the team and has continued to like her, want her. Roscoe was convenient, there and someone he respected.  Dixon probably won't die, maybe she goes back to the BF.

I agree about switchblade guy but he seems too obvious.

 

We're basically in Edward v. Jacob territory now, but I would argue that 

Spoiler

Reacher opened up to Roscoe to an extent that he clearly hasn't done to Dixon. Dixon even remarks to Neaghley how the two of them are closer, despite the fact that Dixon is the one he hooked up with. On top of that, there is Jack's final speech to Roscoe at the end of season one, where he says that if anyone could make him stay somewhere long-term it would be her.

 

[Mentat]

5 hours ago, horangi said:

I started up on Reacher Season 2, and while Boche often had some creative license, good lord does this season stretch the suspension of belief!  In the first three episodes we've had:

The amount of serious crimes Reacher commits (up to and including several first degree murders) is staggering. He's basically a Chaotic Neutral vigilante with absolutely no qualms about killing others. That he managed to thrive in the army is quite surprising, and that NYPD is willing to overlook this because of some vague suspicions of wrong-doing elsewhere shatters my suspension of disbelief completely.

[maarsen]

21 hours ago, Zorral said:

Saltburn (2023) AP.  Gads. this was a slog.  Maybe I’m so familiar with the tropes of class in private educational institutions which provide the ruling class for all the institutions from monarchy to military – and the universities themselves -- and the figure who isn’t part of that getting taken magically by One of Them.  Or maybe it’s because these people are useless and without any intrinsic interest or actual character or personality, not persons, merely 'ironic' cut-out puppets, who are only their class.

Iit’s not shocking that on social media it has been noticed by so many that so many of those who love this movie officially hate women. Ollie certainly does.

The only two interesting scenes in this smug, see how clever we are mess (nope!, not clever, certainly not droll!)  were both ripped/influenced/whatever by many previous flix –

  Hide contents

Ollie and Venetia her menstrual blood, vampire—he says he’s a vampire – her head falling back, neck exposed, classic vampiric taking of the virgin, and the final sequence as Oliie dances around the house like Hugh Grant dances around as Prime Minister at #10 in Love Actually – except naked, and Ollie naked is as drab and dreary as Ollie in his clothes.

 

Well I suppose one could lay the blame for this type of drama at the feet of Evelyn Waugh when he wrote Brisdeshead Revisited. Some film makers recently have pointed out the rot in the upper class foundations. Twice now while watching The Crown I saw a mouse scurrying across the floor. Once when Diana was first introduced and the second time when Charles came to talk about her with his mum at the palace. Charles did notice the second one.

[Zorral]

1 minute ago, maarsen said:

a mouse scurrying across the floor.

Also in the palace of Queen Victoria in the Victoria series.

The difference though between Waugh's Brideshead and this is that Waugh created actual characters, who were persons.  These are no more than the cut-out puppets that Ollie plays with in the final sequence.

[horangi]

7 hours ago, Mentat said:

The amount of serious crimes Reacher commits (up to and including several first degree murders) is staggering. He's basically a Chaotic Neutral vigilante with absolutely no qualms about killing others. That he managed to thrive in the army is quite surprising, and that NYPD is willing to overlook this because of some vague suspicions of wrong-doing elsewhere shatters my suspension of disbelief completely.

Totally!  I know the show is going for the rogues fighting against 'the man' vibe sorta like the A-Team, so I wouldn't expect them to be working within the bounds of the law.  But he comes off as more of an anarchist that disdains the rule of law in favor of might makes right.  On how he survived the military- hard to believe he'd have lasted a week:

• Spoiler

  • Actively dismisses the system or rank because... reasons.
  • Incites a major fight between the folks in his command and fellow soldiers who had committed the cardinal sin of being rule followers and assholes, disrespects military tradition, and destroys army property, all so that he can get them working as a part of his personal gang, taking shots around a campfire.  How about trying the Currahee route like the 101st and maybe build comradery in both the unit and the service in general?
  • Has no problem with his team drinking on the job- guzzling beers and shots with dozens of bricks of heroin and other criminal evidence just stashed around their clubhouse with no attempt at maintaining chain of evidence or ensuring proper due process for the accused. 
  • Just how many DUIs did those soldiers commit in the course of a couple episodes?

   

Overall, he comes across as wish fulfillment for a high school bully who thinks they are truly the victim in life.  He'd make a good libertarian for sure.

Edited January 4 by horangi

[Zorral]

Is Blue Eye Samurai an anti-Clavell Shogun?

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Is Blue Eye Samurai an anti-Clavell Shogun?

A whatnow?

[dbunting]

17 hours ago, horangi said:

After wrapping that up, I started up on Reacher Season 2, and while Boche often had some creative license, good lord does this season stretch the suspension of belief!  In the first three episodes we've had:
 

  Hide contents

A couple of innocent barkeeps have their brains nearly bashed in and their bar trashed with thousands of dollars in damage only for them to be just cool with Reacher when they find out it was just a mistake.

 

Innocent? They started it?  But yes. 

Spoiler

Reacher had very little regard for rank while in military, shown throughout the books. If you were worthy of respect you got it whether you were a private or a general. A guy sweeping the floors or the owner of a company. It's part of his code and is why he was busted down in rank and worked back up to major.

 

And be careful calling Bosch equal to The Wire, you will anger a lot of people!

[Quijote Light]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Is Blue Eye Samurai an anti-Clavell Shogun?

Could you give a bit more detail on what you mean? My first instinct would be to say no. They both take place during the Tokugawa period. Personally I though it was an excellent show. 

[horangi]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

And be careful calling Bosch equal to The Wire, you will anger a lot of people!

Hehe, pretty sure I said it was not on the same level.  The Wire is in the top five series ever.  Boche is fun and somewhat more coherent than most detective procedurals.

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, Quijote Light said:

Could you give a bit more detail on what you mean? My first instinct would be to say no. They both take place during the Tokugawa period. Personally I though it was an excellent show. 

At this point I can't.  It was the first three episodes that provoked the question because, unlike Shogun, there is no assimilating European as protagonist.  But at eps. 5 & 6 , we go into realms that are unexpectedly strange -- and I don't mean the gender stuff --  except

Spoiler

for the marriage of which there had been no hint, so I'm not sure about this in terms of character and audience -- not fair, so to speak, maybe?

But I am ok with that too, because it was as superb in its depiction of the spectrum of androgyny as everything before and after.  Impressive!

It's the superhuman non-stop stuff -- endless fights -- I want more story, less action.  But I've got 2 1/2 more eps to go, so who knows.  There was enough unexpected that worked to keep me intrigued, and at times the animation was so good it seemed it would have been impossible to tell this story in any other format.  So there is that too.  Though, the score, at times . . . .

OTOH, at one point there was a Horse! A Horse of Importance!

Edited January 5 by Zorral

[dbunting]

46 minutes ago, horangi said:

Hehe, pretty sure I said it was not on the same level.  The Wire is in the top five series ever.  Boche is fun and somewhat more coherent than most detective procedurals.

Ah, I must've misread it, was thinking man, The Wire is so much better than Bosch!

[TheLastWolf]

Paris, Texas

Harry Dean Stanton was smokin'! And not his usual way with a ciggie mind you

Spoiler

Travis got the redemption he wanted, no, needed. But Walt and Anne, what about them. It was heart breaking to see her let go on the phone. And Hunter? Much as I loved Jane getting reunited with him, she couldn't possible provide for and take care of the kid like her in-laws could (who'd be missing him dearly) in her condition. And if Travis had come to terms with his shortcomings, acceptance of the past why couldn't he move on and start anew with his family, the vacant lot be let go symbolically like the idea he projected onto the woman (like his father before him). Driving off into the sunset tragically is cool from a dramatic point of view but still...

The way he initially enquired about her doing more than peepshows was disturbing, all the more when you think of the kid's fate, to be plucked from a safe nest and dropped into an uncertain future. But if it would serve as a catalyst for the mom to start anew herself...

Please resolve my meandering thoughts. Tell me that the kid and his mom would go on to lead a good life, the dad on his pilgrimage, the aunt and uncle at least get to visit regularly. Not because anyone'd love to hear it but with conviction.

 

[Nictarion]

5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Paris, Texas

Harry Dean Stanton was smokin'! And not his usual way with a ciggie mind you

  Reveal hidden contents

Travis got the redemption he wanted, no, needed. But Walt and Anne, what about them. It was heart breaking to see her let go on the phone. And Hunter? Much as I loved Jane getting reunited with him, she couldn't possible provide for and take care of the kid like her in-laws could (who'd be missing him dearly) in her condition. And if Travis had come to terms with his shortcomings, acceptance of the past why couldn't he move on and start anew with his family, the vacant lot be let go symbolically like the idea he projected onto the woman (like his father before him). Driving off into the sunset tragically is cool from a dramatic point of view but still...

The way he initially enquired about her doing more than peepshows was disturbing, all the more when you think of the kid's fate, to be plucked from a safe nest and dropped into an uncertain future. But if it would serve as a catalyst for the mom to start anew herself...

Please resolve my meandering thoughts. Tell me that the kid and his mom would go on to lead a good life, the dad on his pilgrimage, the aunt and uncle at least get to visit regularly. Not because anyone'd love to hear it but with conviction.

 

One of the best monologues ever.