3 Body Problem (Show Spoilers Only)

[IFR]

55 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Fucking nerds. 

You know, the Sci Fi / Fantasy / CBM crowd can be really embarrassing sometimes. Jesus christ it's been 5 years and they have an all new ASOIAF show to enjoy. An embarrassment of riches when you consider the broader landscape.  Jesus, just let it go. 

It baffles me too, but that's just the nature of some fandoms, I suppose.

Ultimately it probably won't matter. The imdb rating was at 6.2 a day ago, and is now at 7.5. I suspect that it will slowly raise and settle somewhere between 7.9 and 8.4. Which at this point of the adaptation is a fair rating (I personally would give this first season a solid B, up to episode 5). Benioff and Weiss and Woo aimed to capture the spirit of the book, and really, that was also my impression of the first book.

If they are able to do a good job of books 2 and 3, then I think the rating will cap at somewhere mid-8, which will make it somewhat like Andor - a brilliant show whose quality isn't quite reflected by the imdb rating.

But that's a big if. There was a lot of underwhelming use of CG this season. I think if Benioff and Weiss and Woo want to be successful with this adaptation, they need to step up their game, and hopefully focus more on visually interesting non-CG approaches to the scifi elements, as much as they can.

Edited March 23 by IFR

[House Cambodia]

46 minutes ago, IFR said:

But that's a big if. There was a lot of underwhelming use of CG this season. I think if Benioff and Weiss and Woo want to be successful with this adaptation, they need to step up their game, and hopefully focus more on visually interesting non-CG approaches to the scifi elements, as much as they can.

Volumes 2 and 3 of the books get far more 'cosmic' and span the centuries. This would naturally require more - and more spectacular CGI, so there should be no concerns about that. The potential problem here is that with the scope getting larger and larger, the role of individual people diminishes, and we've already seen what a D&D adaptation looks like when the CGI is big and the characterisations are undercooked. Still, that for future years.

[Relic]

5 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

You know, the Sci Fi / Fantasy / CBM crowd can be really embarrassing sometimes.

Sweet irony. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

9 hours ago, Relic said:

Sweet irony. 

Haaaaaaaaaay…

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 3/22/2024 at 8:40 PM, IFR said:

There was a lot of underwhelming use of CG this season. I think if Benioff and Weiss and Woo want to be successful with this adaptation, they need to step up their game, and hopefully focus more on visually interesting non-CG approaches to the scifi elements, as much as they can.

Something tells me episode 5 consumed the bulk of the VFX budget for season 1. And the China sequences probably had a lot more than you'd think, and they looked amazing.

But yeah, that chimp looked a bit wonky. 

[Darzin]

I haven't watched the English version not sure if I'm going to, but I enjoyed the Chinese one a lot though it did have some pacing issues, actually the poor pacing at parts really felt like an anime, which often have those same issues. But the whole of season one of the Chinese version is avaialbe on youtube, if anyone is interested in watching it.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 3/22/2024 at 2:54 PM, Myrddin said:

Heady Lamar would like a word. Or I guess let her patents speak for her.

Brian May has a PhD in astrophysics. Like, a real one. Not some bullshit honorary one for writing the battle theme for the Flash Gordon movie. 

[Spockydog]

Brian May? What are you arguing? That frizzy-headed bellend proponents of shit guitar music can be brainy too?  

Anyway,

https://www.businessinsider.com/50-sexy-scientists-2013-2#1-bobak-ferdowsi-49

The world's sexiest scientist is a dude! Apparently.

Edited March 25 by Spockydog

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

21 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Brian May? What are you arguing? That frizzy-headed bellend proponents of shit guitar music can be brainy too?  

Anyway,

https://www.businessinsider.com/50-sexy-scientists-2013-2#1-bobak-ferdowsi-49

The world's sexiest scientist is a dude! Apparently.

Um, have you heard the battle theme from Flash Gordon?

I stayed up late to watch the Curiosity landing "live" (time delay to Mars notwithstanding). 

I was living in Milwaukee at the time. I remember the day because it started with this. Less than 20 minutes from my home. 

The contrast between what was coming through my flatscreen at the start of the day and the end of the day... It's difficult to describe. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Rewatching...

Spoiler

The voice on the other end of the phone when Thomas Wade suggests the Wall Facer project sounds a lot like Martin Sheen.

Anyone else think Jin Cheng's attire gets a bit more militaristic and utilitarian after goes to work for Wade?

Tatiana (Marlo Kelly) is a truly terrifying villain. 

 

[horangi]

Wrapped up the 1st season.  Overall good, I thought the pacing of episodes 6-8 (particularly 6) was a bit odd but I didn't expect them to get that far into the plot in Season 1.  Season 2 will need to buff up the sfx budget for sure. 

Spoiler

I think they spent too much time moping around Will's beach house and cancer progression that could have been used to fill out some of the plot, which was on fast forward at that point.  Auggie's back and forth emotional rollecoaster also seemed unnecessary.  Was there any link back to the book that I am forgetting that explained her behavior?  The Chinese version avoids the guilt issue completely by making all the people on Judgment Day as irredeemable baddies.  Both Wade and Raj suddenly get derided as monsters, which given whats at stake seems a bit harsh.

 

[polishgenius]

21 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Brian May? What are you arguing? That frizzy-headed bellend proponents of shit guitar music can be brainy too?  

 

 

 

Brian May wishes he was as good a musician physicist as Brian Cox.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, horangi said:

Wrapped up the 1st season.  Overall good, I thought the pacing of episodes 6-8 (particularly 6) was a bit odd but I didn't expect them to get that far into the plot in Season 1.  Season 2 will need to buff up the sfx budget for sure. 

  Hide contents

I think they spent too much time moping around Will's beach house and cancer progression that could have been used to fill out some of the plot, which was on fast forward at that point.  Auggie's back and forth emotional rollecoaster also seemed unnecessary.  Was there any link back to the book that I am forgetting that explained her behavior?  The Chinese version avoids the guilt issue completely by making all the people on Judgment Day as irredeemable baddies.  Both Wade and Raj suddenly get derided as monsters, which given whats at stake seems a bit harsh.

 

It may be

Spoiler

A bit harsh but I think it makes sense for a scientist who intended their invention to be used for stuff like water filtration for impoverished people and instead had to watch a bunch of children get sliced into steaks with it instead. 

Bearing in mind that she had survived the mindfuck of the count down which drove a bunch of other scientists to suicide, so she's probably not on the soundest psychological footing either.

There's a *lot* of hate for Auggie on Reddit that's a lot less reasonable than your comment though, so I'm perhaps responding to other things. A lot of it really boils down to an objection I saw here, that she's too good looking and young to believe as a scientist with others building on that to complain about her reactions and emotions.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

3 minutes ago, karaddin said:

There's a *lot* of hate for Auggie on Reddit that's a lot less reasonable than your comment though, so I'm perhaps responding to other things. A lot of it really boils down to an objection I saw here, that she's too good looking and young to believe as a scientist with others building on that to complain about her reactions and emotions.

Fucking nerds. 

Yes,

Spoiler

Her reaction to the Panama canal incident isn't necessarily rational, but it's completely understandable (for someone who isn't a reddit shit poster). She's got blood on her hands and it's not sitting well with her. 

It also highlights a political dynamic that was first shown in revolutionary China and is being set up in the present day, on a global scale: How much evil are people willing to excuse for the common good? Those Red Guards absolutely thought they were doing the right thing.

 

[horangi]

39 minutes ago, karaddin said:

There's a *lot* of hate for Auggie on Reddit that's a lot less reasonable than your comment though, so I'm perhaps responding to other things. A lot of it really boils down to an objection I saw here, that she's too good looking and young to believe as a scientist with others building on that to complain about her reactions and emotions.

Yeah that's definitely not a hate-bandwagon I'm keen to join.  Fair points from you and Deadlines about the psychology of the situation, with Oppenheimer being a decent real-world comparison.  It was more of a direction thing where it seemed her character was flip-flopping between episodes 5-7.  I also responded to the beauty objection with similar disdain.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

...continuing from my previous observations banished to the spoiler dimension...

Spoiler

Anyone else notice a bit of visual "rhyming" in Ye Winjie's detention present-day and in the China flashbacks?

Saul Durand get's targeted partly for his "Don't play with God" conversation (I think) but also because his intuition regarding actions of the San-Ti is pretty spot on.

While everyone else tries to explain the stars blinking as some kind of natural phenomenon, he's the first one to label it a "deepfake", though he doesn't understand who or how. He is correct; and the person he reveals this to is Ye Winjie.

 

[karaddin]

3 hours ago, horangi said:

I also responded to the beauty objection with similar disdain.

Just want to make it clear in case it wasn't - I had that disclaimer about the hate for her in case I was coming across overly confrontational and may have been projecting frustration from that into the reply to you, definitely didn't get that vibe from your criticism.

I think that stuff with Auggie broadly comes down to flaws of the character that are part of their characterisation rather than flaws in the writing of the character. Saul has plenty as well but for some reason they don't seem to bother that group on Reddit in quite the same way.

All that said:

Spoiler

Her hate for Wade afterwards seems much more grounded than Raj. I guess it's meant to be taken that his lack of remorse about killing kids like that is what turned her off him rather than his mere participation (which is comparable to hers). Well that and she is pretty angry at herself too.

It's broadly speaking what I'd expect from a high ranking "soldier" so it seems odd to be surprised, but if you infer she knew him reasonably well as Jin's boyfriend there would be off screen interactions.

 

[karaddin]

5 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

...continuing from my previous observations banished to the spoiler dimension...

  Hide contents

Anyone else notice a bit of visual "rhyming" in Ye Winjie's detention present-day and in the China flashbacks?

Saul Durand get's targeted partly for his "Don't play with God" conversation (I think) but also because his intuition regarding actions of the San-Ti is pretty spot on.

While everyone else tries to explain the stars blinking as some kind of natural phenomenon, he's the first one to label it a "deepfake", though he doesn't understand who or how. He is correct; and the person he reveals this to is Ye Winjie.

 

Huh, nice point there

Spoiler

His reaction calling it a deepfake is way back early in the season so it was out of mind by the time we got to the last episode but yeah, he was right and not by chance either - the logic was correct. The amount of energy necessary to fuck with the entry of light to Earth might be utterly insane by our current tech level but it's entirely reasonable in comparison to the idea of making every star in the night sky blink off and on sufficiently far in the past that they would all be blinking at the exact same time the light hits earth.

So the method of deepfake is beyond our ability to figure out, but it must be a deep fake somehow. The ability to reason the explanation despite lacking the technology to understand the "how" is quite relevant, and I would expect to be at odds with how a lot of the scientists think as the how is often the fixation.

And agreed on visual rhyming with the incarceration, I couldn't tell you what they were but I was picking up on something.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

25 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Huh, nice point there

  Reveal hidden contents

His reaction calling it a deepfake is way back early in the season so it was out of mind by the time we got to the last episode but yeah, he was right and not by chance either - the logic was correct. The amount of energy necessary to fuck with the entry of light to Earth might be utterly insane by our current tech level but it's entirely reasonable in comparison to the idea of making every star in the night sky blink off and on sufficiently far in the past that they would all be blinking at the exact same time the light hits earth.

So the method of deepfake is beyond our ability to figure out, but it must be a deep fake somehow. The ability to reason the explanation despite lacking the technology to understand the "how" is quite relevant, and I would expect to be at odds with how a lot of the scientists think as the how is often the fixation.

And agreed on visual rhyming with the incarceration, I couldn't tell you what they were but I was picking up on something.

 

In episode 4...

Spoiler

...he's also the first one to hypothesize that Augie's countdown, the stars blinking, and the helmets are linked, and he accurately describes how the helmet works. And he says all this out loud so the sophons hear him. I'm sure there's more in later episodes but I haven't gotten there on my latest re-watch.

Now I'm thinking the "Don't play with God" punchline is less important. Presumably Ye Winjie was communicating the dark forest hypothesis but the San-Ti couldn't know that. They don't understand deception, allegory or metaphor.

That she was communicating "something" is the best they could do. Or they think she was actually telling him a joke of ambiguous meaning.

I wouldn't be surprised if he receives a package in season two containing the game theory and Fermi paradox books Ye Winjie is seen with before she leaves for China. 

 

[karaddin]

I saw people speculating 

Spoiler

that the San-Ti claim to not understand deception and dishonesty is in fact deception itself and they understand perfectly fine, but its useful for humans to think they can't, this included the argument that the game itself doesn't really make sense for a people that don't understand the concept of dishonesty. Not sure I buy that argument on its own, but it does fit their behaviour as a whole. This included some theorizing that might be based on book spoilers or might just be based on an inference from the second name of the book (I haven't read the books so I'm assuming the latter because its better for me to think its not a spoiler even if it is), but I'll drop it in a separate spoiler box to play it safe

comment based on book titles below

Spoiler

That the very first reply from them to Ye Winjie is in fact a lie - there is no separate pacifist San-Ti, the idea that there could be one is itself incompatible with the way they present themselves as being incapable of deception. The actual motive was not wanting further communication risking someone else (ie the dark forest) noticing both of them, and that from the instant the San-Ti received the messages they were already prepping for the trip/invasion. This does seem to line up pretty well with the timeline so I think its solid (assuming its not outright spoilers).