UK Politics XIV: The Eyes Of Caligula, The Mouth Of Marilyn Monroe

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Well, there were surely some folks who liked her or she wouldn't have been the longest-serving PM of the century.

[Inigima]

Frankie Boyle is having a field day on Twitter.

My personal favorite:

Thatcher is the reason that the tweets saying you shouldn't joke about her death are riddled with spelling mistakes

[Jon AS]

Right after they die, unless they are being executed after commiting genocide, yeah. Neither Thatcher nor Chavez were Stalin.

But right after people die is when we look back on their lives and reflect on what kind of person they were, what impact they had on the people around them. And if we come to the conclusion that they had net a negative impact on many people's lives, even if they weren't mass murderers, should we just stay silent about that?

It's not an issue with people who were generally considered decent human beings during their lifetime, but Thatcher remained a hugely divisive figure until her death.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Jon AS,

Fling poo to your heart's content. I just think it's karmicly uncool.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Well, there were surely some folks who liked her or she wouldn't have been the longest-serving PM of the century.

Thatcher's strategy was to get 40% of the vote, then watch as the opposition fought among themselves: under first-past-the-post divide and conquer yields rich rewards.

[Alex.]

Frankie Boyle is having a field day on Twitter.

Some good ones on there:

Before Thatcher: Scotland quite good at football; proper summers; near full employment; optimism After Thatcher: AIDS; Raoul Moat

[BigFatCoward]

Jon AS,

Fling poo to you heart's content. I just think it's karmicly uncool.

I don't think anyone who isn't from a northern industrial town can have any idea of the hatred that woman inspires. She was vile, almost all of the problems this country now has are a direct result of her selfish, uncaring policies. She makes Cameron and osborne look like hippies.

[mormont]

Well, there were surely some folks who liked her or she wouldn't have been the longest-serving PM of the century.

Well, not really. Many people voted for Thatcher, but didn't like her. Again, that's the kind of personality she was. She never based her political strategy on being liked.

Besides, like most long-serving PMs, she benefited from an opposition in fundamental disarray and a judicious dose of economic manipulation.

[Hereward]

There were, and are, a great many people who might not have thought she was likeable in a warm and winning personality way, but who all but worshipped her. They just don't happen to post here.

[Usotsuki]

Until now of course.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I don't think anyone who isn't from a northern industrial town can have any idea of the hatred that woman inspires. She was vile, almost all of the problems this country now has are a direct result of her selfish, uncaring policies. She makes Cameron and osborne look like hippies.

I've been having an interesting time explaining to some friends of mine why I'm suddenly keen on having a keg party in the weekend. I'll fully admit that it is bad taste: but frankly, Thatcher is in a class of her own. Having a Scottish father (and Welsh grandfather) means she's been a hate figure in my household as long as I can remember.

[Hereward]

I grew out of it.

[polishgenius]

Well, there were surely some folks who liked her or she wouldn't have been the longest-serving PM of the century.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the two longest-serving PMs in modern times are also the two with the strongest hate for them; the will and ability to stand for and win three elections is also the kind of thing likely to alienate people. Though the dislike for Blair is mostly based on more nebulous 'the Iraq war was bad' sentiments whereas both the positive and negative emotions for Thatcher are based on much more specific things.

There are obviously some folks who liked her though; she's a hero to many Tories. Just head over to the Daily Mail to see the proof of that.

[Jon AS]

Fling poo to your heart's content. I just think it's karmicly uncool.

I don't recall commenting on Thatcher (plenty of people with much better reasons than me already doing it), I'm bemused by your rather patronising "don't speak ill of the dead" attitude considering how polarising a person she was to the people of her own country.

ETA:

Instead of a blanket refusal to look at a person's (perceived?) bad past deeds, how about bringing up reasons she should be seen in a more positive light and trying to weigh that against the negative (one of which surely has to be inspiring hatred in so very many people)?

[Theda Baratheon]

Frankie Boyle's twitter has gave me some laughs today.

Let's not forget this lovely little epithets. ''Maggie Thatcher the milk Snatcher'' when she was the education secretary in 1971.

Removing school milk for the over sevens to save money.

Edward Short, then Labour education spokesman said scrapping milk was ‘the meanest and most unworthy thing’ he had seen in 20 years.

Let us not forget the UK miners' strike either.

she's been a hate figure in my household as long as I can remember.

Same here.

She was a bona fide poltical sadist, and as such is infinitely more hateable. Sexism doesn't come into it.

I agree.

:lol: Bring back the [Like]s please.

;)

[Pebble thats Stubby]

I'm sure the people of the Faulklands will be mounring her loss and genuinally appriciated her actions / dessions that directly effected them.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Jon,

That's always my position when someone of note dies, again barring genocides. If you find it patronizing so be it. It's what I always say.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Well, not really. Many people voted for Thatcher, but didn't like her. Again, that's the kind of personality she was. She never based her political strategy on being liked.

Okay, you get a point for semantics.

Folks here are posting about how horrible she was, and how much they despised her and her policies. I was simply pointing out that based on the length of her term, there are clearly others who viewed who more favorably, whether it was based on personality, policy, or whatever.

[Angalin]

There were, and are, a great many people who might not have thought she was likeable in a warm and winning personality way, but who all but worshipped her. They just don't happen to post here.

Folks here are posting about how horrible she was, and how much they despised her and her policies. I was simply pointing out that based on the length of her term, there are clearly others who viewed who more favorably, whether it was based on personality, policy, or whatever.

I am not introducing my mother to the board, thank you very much. She'd be banned for trolling on the first day.

[mormont]

Okay, you get a point for semantics.

I don't think it's a semantic point, in this context. It's a pretty fundamental part of Thatcher's political makeup, and therefore her appeal, that she was more concerned with being right than being liked. (In contrast to, say, Tony Blair or Gordon Brown.)

I'm a Scot, and very few of us voted for her. But as a kid, I knew one or two who did, and would admit to it. And their attitude was generally that they didn't like her, didn't even admire her, but they thought that she was probably right, at least on the issues they cared about. But, and I think this is important, that was in a context where the alternatives were starkly different. Michael Foot was advocating for unilateral disarmament, to take an extreme example. Such stark political differences between the two main political parties in this day and age are almost unthinkable. Yet they do a lot to explain why Thatcher won three general elections, despite being so divisive a figure and so unlikeable a personality.