felice Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 My main reason for thinking it being a set up for Ward to be an infiltrator into Hydra is that I just don't buy Hand offering Ward a chance to ice Gruff on the spot as consistent with her character, or with a highly professional level 9 operative. At her level she would be thinking very strategically and know that Gruff is of a great deal of use alive... Also it would make much more sense for Ward to remain hidden in what remains of SHIELD than for him to out himself. Garrett being a great deal of use to Shield is a good reason for Ward to break cover to rescue him. But is his cover really blown? There were no living non-Hydra witnesses, so it doesn't seem unlikely that he'll rejoin Coulson's team next episode reporting on how Hydra agents rescued Garrett and only he escaped. But yes, Hand ordering an execution is suspicious; if Ward doesn't come back to Coulson immediately, the triple agent theory seems very plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Garrett being a great deal of use to Shield is a good reason for Ward to break cover to rescue him. But is his cover really blown? There were no living non-Hydra witnesses, so it doesn't seem unlikely that he'll rejoin Coulson's team next episode reporting on how Hydra agents rescued Garrett and only he escaped. But yes, Hand ordering an execution is suspicious; if Ward doesn't come back to Coulson immediately, the triple agent theory seems very plausible. You're right of course. No legit SHIELD person will know what happened on that plane, though Ward will have to kill or "kill" the pilot(s). And yes, Ward being back on Team Coulson next episode would pretty much seal his position as legit Hydra operative. But whatever he is I think the writers are keen to keep the audience guessing about Ward's true loyalties. So I don't think we will see him back on the bus, he'll be with Garrett, but has Hydra status will be kept ambiguous for the audience. I don't know why people think Ward being an infiltrator into Hydra would be cheesy and weak. Sure him being legit Hydra would be like woah! But making him a mole in Hydra is also a legit direction for the story to take. Of course another clue will be whether there's a conversation between Garrett and Ward indicating that Ward was recruited by Garrett, or if Ward "joined" Hydra after Garrett was no longer his SO. If Ward was Garrett's Hydra protege then Ward's definitely as much of a true believer as Garrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Said person isn't exactly a high profile actor though, certainly not a Robert Downey or Gwyneth - conscious uncoupling - Paltrow, or Scarlett Johannsen level of profile. Coming off a successful television show and having an established presence in the MCU makes for a higher profile than anyone on Coulson's team, though. On the other hand it's not high enough to not worry about attaching yourself to a show that might not be long for this world. I don't know why people think Ward being an infiltrator into Hydra would be cheesy and weak. Sure him being legit Hydra would be like woah! But making him a mole in Hydra is also a legit direction for the story to take. We've already seen Ward as a good guy. He was a bore. This is a chance to effectively reinvent the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 It's entirely possible it's a setup but what makes that less likely to my mind is the fact that Ward shot Nash. That was just too convenient for Hydra and happened before there was any chance to set up a plan for his infiltration. The Skye thing seems real as far as it goes but I don't think that was the reason he shot him. Also, does it seem unlikely to anyone else that Williams is the real clairvoyant? He seems like a great combat ops guy, not so much a devious criminal genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Also, does it seem unlikely to anyone else that Williams is the real clairvoyant? He seems like a great combat ops guy, not so much a devious criminal genius. And how was he getting word to his guys? I think it'd be interesting if the clairvoyant was nothing to do with Hydra. You're right of course. No legit SHIELD person will know what happened on that plane, though Ward will have to kill or "kill" the pilot(s). And yes, Ward being back on Team Coulson next episode would pretty much seal his position as legit Hydra operative. But whatever he is I think the writers are keen to keep the audience guessing about Ward's true loyalties. So I don't think we will see him back on the bus, he'll be with Garrett, but has Hydra status will be kept ambiguous for the audience. Shame we didn't get to see who killed the pilot, as if Garret did it we'd know Ward did really kill the other guys. I'm hoping he did, because from either he's a bad guy, or he's going under very deep cover (willing to kill folk to get in) it's more interesting than some bullshit 'play dead' thing. It's a dull storyline trick, and undermines Garret's competence. I'm not sure but I thought I saw Ward interacting with the 'team' in the promo. Also the 'will return in a few moments' logo was changed to the Hydra symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I am thinking that it is Team Clairvoyant vs Team Hydra vs Team Shield. For whatever reason, I think Ward is on Team Clairvoyant (if not the Clairvoyant himself, probably not, but oh well....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I don't know why people think Ward being an infiltrator into Hydra would be cheesy and weak. Sure him being legit Hydra would be like woah! But making him a mole in Hydra is also a legit direction for the story to take. Mostly because it makes no sense with what we've seen. When would he have had a moment to even make this plan as the pace was very quick and he was with Skye or the entire team the whole time until he went with Hand? Why would he kill three people to do it? And if he didn't kill them, then it strains credibility that Garrett, a seasoned special ops guy who kills people, wouldn't check to see if people were dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Llama Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Saw "Turn, Turn, Turn." Better. I'm still not sure I'd use the word "good," but its a dramatic improvement over the few * other episodes I've seen and I'm actively interested in what happens next week. As an organization? Hydra are nonsensical destruction-loving dicks [my only exposure to them is in the MCU]. As a storytelling device? Hail Hydra. *Very few, for the sake of full disclosure. Because I don't have regular tv access, but also because they disappointed me and I didn't seek out more. In the middle of the episode, when all of Shield's stuff is just getting smashed absolutely to shit, I just sat back and smiled. Which is atypical -- I like goodguys! But it was cathartic, after the show's almost laid-back approach to Shield as this wonderful organization that always comes out ahead and whose members are usually right inherently by virtue of being Shield agents, to see Shield just have a really fucking bad day. Tripplet was not bad in this, and I hope he stays around. I also hope they continue to play up Coulson's organization-he-has-devoted-life-to-is-founded-on-bullshit angle, which hinted, for me at least, at a compelling direction for the character. The stuff about May's role in this one helped her character. Even Skye's scene with Ward, in which she's quite sarcastic, hinted at some three-dimensionality. I don't know how they've kept these people so dull for so long, but there are strong hints they can still turn it around here. Optimistic? Maybe. But still. I'm very torn about whether I want Ward to be a true Hydra agent. Or rather, I'm not torn especially -- it would make him miles more interesting, the bar being very very low at the moment. But if he is true Hydra then Hand is probably dead, and I'd rather she wasn't; I thought she was quite good in this one. She makes Shield appropriately sinister and worrying / is a slightly more ambiguous character than the people on Coulson's plane. I guess its worth losing Hand to hopefully make Ward more interesting [as others have pointed out this is not saying "evil" means "interesting," but dude is plenty boring now, so it can only help], but it is a shame. I wanted very much to like this show. I like Marvel very much; I like Whedon very much. I wanted to disagree with the internet. I wanted to not find the writing thuddingly clunky or the characters flat or the arcs paint-by-numbers. But for the most part I've been unable to disagree with the webs on this one. "Turn, Turn, Turn" helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Woah. That really turned things up a notch. Kinda do wish I'd seen Cap 2 first though, but hopefully I'll get to that before the next ep. Not sure how I feel about Ward at the end. Mostly I'm kinda torn between hoping he actually is a bad guy because that'd be interesting, and hoping Hand isn't dead because she was turning out to be an interesting character but it seems like the two are mutually exclusive. Ward didn't headshot her, but barring wonder drug it seems like if she's actually been shot then she's toast. It's kinda odd though. Her offering Ward the chance to off Garret seemed very out of character and staged though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Llama Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I agree Hand offering to let Ward shoot Garrett feels somewhat stagey, and I guess whether this is out of character for her depends on your read on her personality: She's a hardline by-the-book, deeply professional agent, I agree, and in this context the scene feels weird. But ... I don't know. There's also an anger and a cold practicality to Hand. She's very willing to take the efficient -- or what she sees as efficient -- road, even if that involves icing people. Yes, she's guided in such actions by a deep sense of professionalism in that what she's doing is best for Shield as she sees it, and its tough to see how having a high-level Hydra operative in custody isn't good for Shield, but she has shown herself more than ready to take the punitive road. Giving the show a chance to work with these character traits is part of the reason I hope she's not dead, though I increasingly think she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 She had the plane machine gunned and clearly stated she wanted to wipe out Coulson and his team without asking questions. And for reasons that were pretty lame when she explained them to Simmons. It seems odd to want to execute a restrained man but she's definitely a shoot first worry about the consequences later type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 She had the plane machine gunned and clearly stated she wanted to wipe out Coulson and his team without asking questions. And for reasons that were pretty lame when she explained them to Simmons. It seems odd to want to execute a restrained man but she's definitely a shoot first worry about the consequences later type. Yeah. Also remember that brilliant "let's tell Ward there's an extraction team when in truth there isn't! Muahahahaha!" plan she came up with earlier in the season. It felt very contrived to ask Ward to shoot Paxton, but the stupidity of the decision doesn't strike me as particularly out of synch with what we've seen her do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidrun Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 You're right of course. No legit SHIELD person will know what happened on that plane, though Ward will have to kill or "kill" the pilot(s). And yes, Ward being back on Team Coulson next episode would pretty much seal his position as legit Hydra operative. But whatever he is I think the writers are keen to keep the audience guessing about Ward's true loyalties. So I don't think we will see him back on the bus, he'll be with Garrett, but has Hydra status will be kept ambiguous for the audience. I don't know why people think Ward being an infiltrator into Hydra would be cheesy and weak. Sure him being legit Hydra would be like woah! But making him a mole in Hydra is also a legit direction for the story to take. Of course another clue will be whether there's a conversation between Garrett and Ward indicating that Ward was recruited by Garrett, or if Ward "joined" Hydra after Garrett was no longer his SO. If Ward was Garrett's Hydra protege then Ward's definitely as much of a true believer as Garrett. x2 My usual belated catchup. All in all, not a bad episode. I'm still curious if Hand may not be all that she seems, if perhaps that she's orchestrating something. And Trippet I think would be a great addition to Coulson's SHIELD team as in the few episodes we've seen him, he already has more personality and charisma than Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Hill and Fury related news... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Hill and Fury related news... Jeez man, I know what I post isn't widely read but c'mon... don't think this has been linked before. but in case it is a spoiler for any Maria Hill (Cobie Smulders) will be in the May sweeps and apparently Jackson will reappear in the season finale. So much for spoilers in the articles.... https://tv.yahoo.com/news/marvels-agents-h-e-l-d-exclusive-cobie-160004891.html I"m hopeful that this individual will be joining the cast on a more regular basis... you even commented on it when I said it! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 you even commented on it when I said it! :D Some people have trouble staying focused when talk... squirrel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Hill and Fury related news... That's awesome! Greywolf, you gotta check this out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Hill and Fury related news... OMG - did you guys see this?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 About time someone posted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Jeez man, I know what I post isn't widely read but c'mon... you even commented on it when I said it! :DHa! That's what I get for trying to do something quick at work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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