denstorebog Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I agree that if they're not addressing the disappearances, I'm also out. I don't require my shows to have mysteries at the centre, but if I go into one thinking that it does, it damn well better. The combination of Lindelof's prominent role (not his fault, of course) and the show's strong hints at a mystery core (the whole Wayne plotline ("the girl is important"), the weird-ass dog killer as well as a lot of other characters with obviously strange agendas) will likely lead most people to believe that they're watching something they aren't. Given the serious tone and the lack of characters to identify with, I'd say that HBO probably has a failure on their hands this time if there's no mystery to roll it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 But there are still certainly mystery elements to the show to be solved ("these aren't our dogs")...the Holy Wayne special girl, the sanity or lack thereof of Scott Glenn...without necessarily needing to address the central mystery. Or, there are certainly ways to address the central mystery without necessarily solving it.I'm not sure there's anything special about the girl Tom is protecting. Other than the fact she's Wayne's favorite. I have to say I found the whole selling hugs to get rid of pain a little silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 It still seems beyond the pale that the paramilitary forces involved would purposefully target noncombatants. The rules of engagement should be different for noncombatants no matter how well-armed the cult is. If the ROE have changed that much in the intervening 3 years then we are definitely not in Kansas anymore. Agree wholeheartedly that the rules of engagement should be different, but there's precedent for it in our world. They're taught to not make assumptions about who is and isn't a noncombatant until everything is secured. I imagine things would be even worse in the strung-out frayed nerve setting of this series. Also, did they actually target any of them? I recall that they forcibly shoved them to the ground and yelled at them in a hostile manner to give up the goods on Wayne, and of course the dude who got a bullet through the neck threatened to kill the special girl (which was obviously way over the line). All that in and of itself was disturbing, but to my recollection that was as far as it went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 And yes, if you'll watch the episode again, it clearly shows unarmed men and women being indiscriminately shot down. That wasn't a compound raid that went badly...it was outright murder, and many of the victims were some of the very underage girls the officers were supposed to be "rescuing" from Holy Wayne. Now, it didn't break my suspension of disbelief completely, but I certainly hope that a compelling reason is provided for why in the 3 years since the Event, the rule of law has apparently been thrown completely out the window. OK, I somehow missed the part where they were actually shooting them. My bad. That being the case I agree with you - yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 It looked to me like one of the girls at least was shot but there was a man in front of her with a gun. There were a couple more they showed being taken down and put in handcuffs. But yeah, the all out war mentality of that raid was a bit ridiculous. I'm not sure there's anything special about the girl Tom is protecting. Other than the fact she's Wayne's favorite.I have to say I found the whole selling hugs to get rid of pain a little silly. I had hoped they would actually put some more time into that, or go into Holy Wayne's back story. It's why Tom was in that cult in the first place. Wayne started off as just a rumor, some guy who was helping people who couldn't get over someone they lost in the Sudden Departure. Tom was obsessed with a kid he knew but hadn't seen since they were 14 or 15. The kid disappeared in the SD and Tom found himself unable to think of anything else. He started failing classes because he just wouldn't show up, etc. And there was a guy in his fraternity who was the same way, couldn't get over this person who disappeared. So they went to see this Wayne guy, who was just a normal dude who lost his son in the SD. And his hugs were magic, they drained away the pain and filled the hole where that missing person was, somehow. It never explained how, just that it did and well enough that within months he had a following but still was a "normal" guy. And then he disappeared for a bit and showed up in swanky new clothes, calling himself Holy Wayne and declared that he was meant to marry as many young Asian girls as he wanted. The main problem with the show so far is that they're not showing these flashbacks that help flesh out the characters and their motivations. We're just dropped into the story in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Could you at the very least put that stuff in spoiler tags? In case we get any of that at some point in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal-a-bunga Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 My biggest problem was how the whole thing was handled like a SWAT team serving a no-knock warrant. This is an armed compound, much like the Branch Davidians, and as we can see the haphazard entry cost the lives of both noncombatants and officers. And yes, if you'll watch the episode again, it clearly shows unarmed men and women being indiscriminately shot down. That wasn't a compound raid that went badly...it was outright murder, and many of the victims were some of the very underage girls the officers were supposed to be "rescuing" from Holy Wayne. Now, it didn't break my suspension of disbelief completely, but I certainly hope that a compelling reason is provided for why in the 3 years since the Event, the rule of law has apparently been thrown completely out the window. Cops murder people frequently in our world, and essentially get off with nothing more than a paid vacation, so I'm not sure I agree that this is such an egregious turn of events. Seems to me that, once the guy at the beginning labelled Wayne as a potential threat to national security, all bets were off. They've obviously taken the view-point that any armed cult with political ties is a terrorist organization, and will act 'accordingly' in response. Besides, I don't think the assault on that compound is something that would be allowed to make the news circuit. Definitely interested in seeing where this particular story line goes from here, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I think that the shooting of unarmed people in the compound was done by federal agents, not police.... I think they set that up when the two feds? decided to name the creepy hugging guy a threat to homeland security... if I'm not mistaken thats why they just went in guns-a-blazin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Weren't a few of the guys in the compound armed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal-a-bunga Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Weren't a few of the guys in the compound armed? Yeah, I went back and re-watched the episode, and nearly everyone who was shot was brandishing a weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojzelote Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The GR reminded me yet again that I hadn't finished watching von Trier's Riget, LOL. I really should get back to that. So far I enjoy the show. It has just the right amount of the creepy, plus I have no idea what's coming, so I'm genuinely curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyanidePie Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Man I'm really enjoying this show, that was such a good episode. Really hit me in the feels a couple times.I just can't get on board with any of the hangups people are having with this show. Really interested to see where this goes from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I like this show... but holy shit, it is weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Man I don't know. Not sure if I'm in on this anymore.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I have caught big chunks of each episode, but not whole episodes. This is a seriously strange program. The visions the priest had were definitely bizarre. And the deer, and the dogs, in the earlier episodes? Anyone have a clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyanidePie Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I have caught big chunks of each episode, but not whole episodes. This is a seriously strange program. The visions the priest had were definitely bizarre. And the deer, and the dogs, in the earlier episodes? Anyone have a clue? No real clue yet. Pigeons were the dominant animal this week. Eccleston really killed it in this episode. The baptism scene early on was really well shot, and then the bathing scene with his wife later was just soul crushing. He's my new favorite character. I'm definitely gonna be watching this episode again. I'm loving the score as well. Basically just everything is working for me right now- The imagery, the mystery, the cinematography, the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Wow... This is by far my favorite show of the summer. What an incredible episode. Oh... There is nothing really to get so far. It has all been straight storytelling. There are stories we don't know answers for, but there have been no curve balls as of yet. All of the animal imagery and the focus on the supernatural are ways that these characters are using mentally to try and reconcile the disappearance. There is no actual evidence of anything strange actually occurring though. I hope the series keeps this up as it is just getting deeper and deeper into the minds of these characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Thought this episode was amazing. Christoper Eccleston's performance was fantastic. :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Best episode so far, absolutely. I was riveted to this one. Eccleston really was a tremendous presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Glad to see all the positives feeling toward episode 3. It's the ones the early reviewers found very compelling. Can't wait to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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