Suicide Squad: Real Life or Just a Fantasy?

[Veltigar]

38 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's a fair criticism of Jahns. I just posted it to show that it's not all doom and gloom. 

I understand  I watched the review and it does feel kind of shallow though. Not enough about the editing for instance, which seems to be wildly reviled.

12 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

 

And Marvel have gotten it right time and time again.

Debatable I'd say. Most of their output is pretty bad, just to a lesser degree than DC's catastophes. Most Marvel movies are either poor or, as @Calibandar already pointed out, just passable. It's like the MCU is bad, but in an inoffensive way, while the DCU is just depressing. The best Marvel has done so far is The Winter Soldier, but even that could have easily been so much better than it eventually turned out to be. 

[sperry]

3 minutes ago, red snow said:

That's the problem right there with RT scores. People tend to equate the score with a "100% is a perfect film" not "100% of reviewers don't think it's bad. I'd rather see a film that got 50% where half the reviewers thought it stunk and the other thought it was genius than everyone think it was meh. The new Trek film is nowhere near my favourite film of the year but I guess I wouldn't have said i outright disliked it.

 

I certainly don't view it that way.  I view it is if you can get an overwhelming of majority of critics to agree a film is good, it's probably good. Same with a film sucking.  It's the ones that fall in the 40-70% range on RT where there's some wiggle room.

[polishgenius]

2 hours ago, sperry said:

Transformers is the only series I can think of that continues to draw well despite the movies being universally panned as terrible, and even that suffered a massive dropoff with the 4th installment.

It's not the same scale, but the Resident Evil movies' box office seems to go up with every installment despite being universally decried as dreadful.

Anyway, the reviewers I most pay attention to seem to think it's flawed but fun. Despite the actual RT number, the quality of the ratings doesn't seem to be anything as bad as what was aimed at BvS, even the negative ones.

3 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I must admit, I never put much stock in his opinions. He's an entertaining guy to watch, but he often forgets that being a reviewer is not the same as being a fanboy. Stuckmann sometimes has that same problem as well, but he's usually a tad more consistent. He gave SS a C by the way.  

I just see Jahns as the reviewing representation of my inner fanboy, so that's alright... If he nerds out over a film, there's a fair chance I'm at least going to enjoy it.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 hours ago, The Wolves said:

plus why is Aquaman angry?

 I imagine they're taking a Eco-Aquaman angle, and that guy should be angry if the DCU oceans are as abused as ours are.

[Knight of Ashes]

5 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

Suicide Squad Fans Petition To Shut Down Rotten Tomatoes

 

I guess Trump's  a Suicide Squad fan.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I think RT scores are a reasonably reliable way of telling if a film is generally good or bad. Sure the percentage you can argue with but very rarely do the majority of critics give really good movies really bad reviews etc.

As for the above points on Marvel, well I'd say most people would judge their movies to be on the whole successful and enjoyable and good movies. You can disagree but you'd be in the minority.

I think rather than judge them against all other movies you have to judge them as comic book movies within that genre. It's hard to find many other films in the genre that come close to what Marvel do. Only Nolan Batman I guess and original Spider-Man. 

[Jasta11]

Most marvels movies are decent enough popcorn flicks, at least. Sure, they are inoffensive and impossible to take seriously, but they do their job as comic book adaptations. The only one I ended up not enjoying was Thor's offerings. Hopefully it picks up in Ragnarok. But both Winter Solider and Civil War were, I think, legitimately good action movies in their own rights, on top of being good comic book movies.

DC hit it big with the Nolanverse since Batman is a different kind of superhero that lends himself well to more down to earth and gritty tales. The problem is when you try to tack on heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman to the mix, because these characters are supposed to be larger than life goody two-shoes. Dragging them down in a setting that tries to be realistic just strips most of what's fun about them in the first place. A film doesn't need to be 100% serious or 100% comedic, but you've got to have a somewhat dominant tone, otherwise the end result is a jumbled mess that doesn't know if it's supposed to be funny, campy or serious.

From what I've seen, Suicide Squad seem to makes that mistake yet again. It starts as a funny action comedy where we follow the quirky band of anti-heroes, but then takes place in a dreary city where dreary stuff happens to dreary people, sucking out its own fun. I'm not going to judge it before I see it, however.

[The Anti-Targ]

6 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I must admit, I never put much stock in his opinions. He's an entertaining guy to watch, but he often forgets that being a reviewer is not the same as being a fanboy. Stuckmann sometimes has that same problem as well, but he's usually a tad more consistent. He gave SS a C by the way.  

There's nothing inherently wrong with having a fanboy reviewer who squees over stuff that the general reviewer doesn't, and thus gives some movies more of a pass than the Rotten tomatoes "accredited" reviewers. I based my decision on whether to actually give Warcraft a go in the cinemas off his and Angry Joe's reviews. And not because I think they are highly credible reviewers in general, but their entertainment sensibilities in the comic book and video game area somewhat align to mine. Because both of them were pretty equivocal about Warcraft I decided it was not going to be worth my time. Interestingly the gap between the RT collective on Warcraft and Jahn's over all view is less than the gap for SS. This suggests to me that I might find SS to be watchable.

[Arkash]

Yeah, I guess the superhero fatigue is kicking in...

Personally I'm in a funny position : Doctor Strange is the superhero movie I'm (and ever been) most hyped about, but beyond that one, I've lost all interest (DC or Marvel).

ETA : although, I must say I still have interest (and faith) in the Netflix Marvel Universe on the small screen.

[The Anti-Targ]

12 hours ago, sperry said:

 

I certainly don't view it that way.  I view it is if you can get an overwhelming of majority of critics to agree a film is good, it's probably good. Same with a film sucking.  It's the ones that fall in the 40-70% range on RT where there's some wiggle room.

I have a very high correlation with movies that score >75% on RT and me liking them. There's a decent correlation in the 60-75% range. Things are much more 50/50 in the 35-60% range, depending a lot on genre. There are very few movies below 35% which I would say are actually good, albeit I don't necessarily consider them bad (Resident Evil movies for example, not good but also not horrible - some of them). I have a conditionally breakable rule of never going to the theatre to watch a movie that is below 35%. Suicide Squad could be one of those movies for which I break that rule. But I'm leaning towards abiding by the rule at the moment.

Saw a recent quote from Kevin Feige suggesting a movie with a $150M budget needs to earn ~$500 to be called a success. That probably puts SS's success threshold at $550 or $600M. Break even of course is lower, but I think SS might struggle to earn that financial success tag.

[Calibandar]

10 hours ago, Jasta11 said:

From what I've seen, Suicide Squad seem to makes that mistake yet again. It starts as a funny action comedy where we follow the quirky band of anti-heroes, but then takes place in a dreary city where dreary stuff happens to dreary people, sucking out its own fun. I'm not going to judge it before I see it, however.

I do hope that isn't what is being shown, because that dreariness is exactly what gets me down as well.

16 hours ago, The Wolves said:

I agree with all of this. 

I hated that JL trailer. I thought it was horrible and dark. The humor was cringeworthy(seriously Barry Allen is so desperate to have friends that he's going to join a superhero team)plus why is Auqaman angry? I didn't like it. Hopefully they show a better trailer next time. 

And Marvel have gotten it right time and time again. Their movies have managed to be different and consistent in their universe. Fox offends me with their Xmen movies and Fantastic Four. DC is DC. 

 

I agree the comic con teaser was not much to write home about and did nothing to excite. On the other hand they'd only been shooting for a month or two and just put something together for the con. GotG director James Gunn explained that this sort of reaction is why they are not releasing the GotG II Comic Con trailer online, or why we still haven't seen the Thor Ragnarok trailer online. Maybe when you don't have much yet, just don't show it, because if isn't good you will be judged on it anyway, regardless of disclaimers. I join your call for a decent trailer next time. 

Disagreed with your take on Marvel and X-men though.

16 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

 
I have to disagree. Marvel are seemingly the only people who have gotten their superhero movies right so far. There has yet to be a truly great Xmen movie, and most are pretty substandard, DC is a trainwreck. Only Deadpool has really managed to do anything interesting, and thats sorta Marvel too. I've yet to see a bad Marvel movie.. well ok maybe Thor 2, but otherwise they've all pretty much hit all the right notes and have rewritten the rule book when it comes to combining universes. Civil War and Winter Soldier are for me a light year ahead of anything DC has done. 

But anyway, I think that so many movies these days don't really need to be especially good to make a profit means far more time and energy is spent on making sure it fits a number of profitable criteria, rather than it being especially good. The amount of money at risk from each production means that commercial decisions always overtake artistic ones. Its a shame and its why I don't especially care about feature length movies any more, its a dying art.

Thor 1, GoTG and the two Avengers films are the ones I liked by far the most where Marvel is concerned, and the rest was barely passable or worse. Dr Strange looks dull, the Iron Man films.... that character isn't interesting enough to carry whole movies ( let alone 3) and I'd much rather watch Nolan's Batman films, which is still DC right? Captain America films have been pretty bland in my opinion, the last one really disappointed me and the first one was uneventful as well. Only Winter Soldier ranks as "ok" and we're not talking 8 stars out of 10 there either.

Deadpool I really liked but that is Fox, isn't it, so not really fair to credit that to Marvel. I agree that none of the X-Men films have been "truly great" but First Class, DoFP and Apocalypse have all ranked among my favourite comic book films, all around 8 stars out of 10 on my scale. I like this universe at least as much as any marvel films world.

Anyway, not to pick on Marvel, they have some good stuff like the 4 I mentioned above but I don't personally see them out- punching DC or Fox. 

[red snow]

16 hours ago, sperry said:

 

I certainly don't view it that way.  I view it is if you can get an overwhelming of majority of critics to agree a film is good, it's probably good. Same with a film sucking.  It's the ones that fall in the 40-70% range on RT where there's some wiggle room.

It's a marker, i agree. I'd still rather trust the review of someone I know I'm fairly aligned with or word-of-mouth from places like here though. Superhero films are generally something I go into not expecting something amazing but fun and action packed. Which I guess is why even I consider Marvel a safe bet.

As an example most of the comic related websites are "it's better than BvS" or generally "it has some fun moments but overstuffed cast". My feeling is that it's going to be about "X-men:Apocalypse" entertaining which is still fine for someone who's a superhero geek.

13 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 I imagine they're taking a Eco-Aquaman angle, and that guy should be angry if the DCU oceans are as abused as ours are.

My thoughts exactly. Why wouldn't he be enraged? Imagine if there were cloud people shitting and dumping waste on us while decimating our farms. We'd have voted him in charge based on his representative rage.

12 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I think rather than judge them against all other movies you have to judge them as comic book movies within that genre. It's hard to find many other films in the genre that come close to what Marvel do. Only Nolan Batman I guess and original Spider-Man. 

And if you are a good non-marvel film people just assume it's because you're doing it the Marvel way eg Deadpool which isn't the Marvel way at all but folk tend to pretend it is.

I'd throw 300, Kick-Ass and Kingsman into the mix too (although I know many hate them, they were successes).

I agree with the notion that the films work best when they distill the essence of what makes the comic book characters work (for long running characters you usually have to go with what makes them work now) and put that on screen. Marvel has that down and it's convenient that it translates roughly for all their properties. Deadpool worked because they took what works in the comics and ramped it up to 11 (he's never that adult in the comics). Nolan Batman worked because that approach works with Batman. etc, etc.

[Veltigar]

11 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

There's nothing inherently wrong with having a fanboy reviewer who squees over stuff that the general reviewer doesn't, and thus gives some movies more of a pass than the Rotten tomatoes "accredited" reviewers. I based my decision on whether to actually give Warcraft a go in the cinemas off his and Angry Joe's reviews. And not because I think they are highly credible reviewers in general, but their entertainment sensibilities in the comic book and video game area somewhat align to mine. Because both of them were pretty equivocal about Warcraft I decided it was not going to be worth my time. Interestingly the gap between the RT collective on Warcraft and Jahn's over all view is less than the gap for SS. This suggests to me that I might find SS to be watchable.

Well, if you're a bit of a fanboy yourself, I guess it makes sense following Jahns' opinions. It certainly isn't wrong by any means, lord knows that the internet has worse offenders out there, but for me personally I don't think he adds a lot. I watch his stuff as well, because I like his enthusiasm, but his opinion is not one I take all that seriously. 

[sifth]

3 hours ago, Veltigar said:

Well, if you're a bit of a fanboy yourself, I guess it makes sense following Jahns' opinions. It certainly isn't wrong by any means, lord knows that the internet has worse offenders out there, but for me personally I don't think he adds a lot. I watch his stuff as well, because I like his enthusiasm, but his opinion is not one I take all that seriously. 

I usually trust the Red Letter Media guys more than anyone else. Those yoyo's actually like a film from a structural perspective and see if everything makes sense. True they are drunk half the time they do their reviews, but that only makes them more entertaining. Mike does love "schlock", so he might enjoy this film for that alone. If you're in the mood for a good laugh and have an hour or two of free time, watch their reviews of MoS and Star Trek Into Darkness; when those guys drink enough, some pretty insane stuff happens.

[Veltigar]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

I usually trust the Red Letter Media guys more than anyone else. Those yoyo's actually like a films from a structural perspective and see if everything makes sense. True they are drunk half the time they do their reviews, but that only makes them more entertaining. Mike does love "schlock", so he might enjoy this film for that alone. If you're in the mood for a good laugh and have an hour or two of free time, watch their reviews of MoS and Star Trek Into Darkness; when those guys drink enough, some pretty insane stuff happens.

Yeah, I like those guys a lot. Although I prefer it when they really, really hate a movie. They become really hilarious then. Their stuff on the Ghostbusters remake is just great  

[Howdyphillip]

 Well, a friend just called and told me that he has bought a ticket to see this movie for me for tonight for my birthday. As I am not a complete jerk, I didn't mention that I was boycotting DC films until Zach Snyder was fired. This means that you people will probably get my impressions of this movie later on. I'm sure that you are all thrilled. 

[Steelborn]

Woah, that friend is a keeper 

[Tinker Tanner]

Just got back from seeing this snd  i really enjoyed it. Bear in mind that i had five glasses of wine in the cinema because im off work this week. I'm starting to see why alot of DC fans are getting pissed off with the reviews because it seems DC films are getting flak for the same things Marvel is getting praise for. Generic bad guys like...well i can't even remember the name of the antagonist in ThorTDW, or boring alien/mutan/robot/infected cannon fodder for the protagonists to kill same as the chitauri or Ultron bots. My only nitpick was that i thought that the camaraderie  between the SuSquad members seemed a bit forced at times, but it's no different from the hand holding at the end of Guardians, Drax and rocket becoming friends because they both got drunk together or the cringeworthy iron man, vision and Thor combining their beams to defeat the big bad robot. This is just a jolly good flick with some decent action scenes and jokes thrown in.  I'm giving it a 8/10 and im seeing it again on Saturday. I know that i sound like a DC fanboy so just know that I'm loathing Rebirth and loving Civil War 2  Also the soundtrack is awesome

[The Anti-Targ]

Interesting courtesy of boxofficemojo

Quote

Even before it has officially been released Suicide Squad is already breaking records as it will premiere in over 4,250 theaters nationwide making it the widest August release of all-time. Next is the August opening weekend record, which is currently held by Guardians of the Galaxy with $94.3 million, a number that will surely be blown away come Sunday evening, as Suicide Squad looks to become the third superhero film to break an opening weekend record in 2016.

Earlier this year it was Deadpool taking the February opening weekend record with a massive $132.4 million debut. A month later, Warner Bros' DC Comics adaptation Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice broke the March record with a $166 million opening despite largely negative reviews and a mixed audience response. Suicide Squad is Warner's latest attempt to breathe life into their DC Comics Universe, this time relying on a Dirty Dozen-esque team of antiheroes. Director David Ayer is at the helm for what is his largest feature to date with a reported budget of $175 million and more than its fair share of ups and downs leading up to release.

In true modern day blockbuster fashion, Suicide Squad's trials and tribulations during production have been well documented and the early reviews are just about as "good" as they were for Batman v Superman, which scored a 27% at RottenTomatoes. By comparison, Suicide Squad currently holds a 29% at RottenTomatoes and an average rating of 4.8/10, the latter of which is a shade below Batman v Superman. However, while the pre-release response from audiences toward reviews for Batman v Superman seemed to be more "Toldja!", the reviews for Suicide Squad have inspired a different reaction.

Fans began expressing their frustration with the critical reviews by petitioning for RottenTomatoes to be shut down, suggesting critics "always give The DC Extended Universe movies unjust Bad Reviews." While the shuttering of RottenTomatoes won't be happening any time soon, fan support is evident and nowhere more so than on the film'sFacebook page which currently has over 3.8 million followers, a number that is larger than the 3.2 million followersDeadpool had ahead of release and just shy of the 3.9 million followers Batman v Superman had. Added to that, online ticket retailer Fandango.com reports Suicide Squad is their top August pre-seller in the company's 16-year history, eclipsing 2014's Guardians of the Galaxy. So what does this mean for the film's opening weekend box office?

The studio is remaining conservative with a $100-125 million projection while early tracking pointed toward a $140 million opening.

So it seems like SS is likely to follow in BvS footsteps by reviewing poorly but performing very well.

[Howdyphillip]

 It was absolutely horrible. I have had better times going to a dentist. I would write a more detailed review, but the film was such a jumbled mess of nonsense that it wouldn't be coherent anyway. They turned the Joker into an Insane Clown Posse Jugaloo. The final fight was laughable (I actually laughed), and looked better when it was done in The Pick of Destiny. There was absolutely nothing funny in the entire film. They even made the funny lines in the trailer not funny in the context of the movie. They did a terrible job of introducing the cast. The CGI (especially on Croc) was tragic, and did I mention that they completely screwed up the Joker? Jared Leto was far less Joker, and far more a guy trying to be Heath Ledger playing the Joker. Also, everything about him was perfectly symmetrical taking everything meaningful about the character away and leaving us with nothing but a clown.

 

I'm not even going to start on the sexualization of the female characters, or how it was a running gag to see women beat, I could go on for days just ranting about that. The best things I can say about the movie is that Will Smith, and Margot Robbie are movie stars and command your attention when they are on the screen. It is just a shame that they didn't have anything to do or say that was remotely interesting while they had it. Finally, the whole movie was shot in very little light making the tone once again dark and brooding. Zach Snyder has one note, and he is going to force it on us everywhere whether it belongs or not. This should have been a funner version of Deadpool. Instead it was garbage.