Rogue One Spoilers Discussion: I Am With You, Jyn Erso

[Joe Pesci]

Just got home from seeing it, and I really liked it. Kind of had a Dirty Dozen feel to it and that's probably my favorite war movie of all time. When it comes to SW, I just sit back, watch and enjoy my first viewing. Some could say it got a little fan-servicey and maybe took the cameos a bit too far (loved Ponda Baba and Dr. Evazan), and I'd not disagree, but that didn't bother me. The Tarkin was pretty rough, I thought they would've been better off keeping him barely in it (like Leia) and just have his back to the screen but being able to see his reflection off the viewport. Minor in the grand scheme of things and about all that really stuck out in terms of things I didn't like. I'll go see it again in a week or so and look at it a little more critically, but Disney started off the stand alones with a bang.

E: Vader was used perfectly imo.

[Crazydog7]

On 12/14/2016 at 6:56 PM, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

I haven't seen it yet but I'm dying to know if I'm right about how it ends. 

For most of everyone involved very badly but in a super fun and touching sort of way. 

[Howdyphillip]

I loved it because I have to. With that said, I had some serious issues. Darkness. Holy crap, the majority of this film was not lit well at all. The planet that Galen Erso was killed was ridiculous. In the front row, I could barely see what was going on. I absolutely despise this trend. I pay money to see a movie, not to squint at shadows. Nothing takes me out of a movie quicker than this.

 The second issue I had was darkness. Morally grey characters are not what I am personally looking for in a Star Wars story. I know people have been clamoring for this, but a simple tale of good vs evil is all I really want from this series. Characters can turn either way, but I find it a strength of the series to tell a classic story rather than a weakness. I found myself loving no one in this movie. 

 Finally, the score was weak as other people have already mentioned. I have heard the excuse that Giacchino only had three weeks to score it, but that is right around how long it takes anyone to score a movie. I don't think I want to hear him do another one.

 With all of that said, I'll be back in the theatre tomorrow morning for some Star Wars and Eggs. The space battle and final third of the movie was undeniably incredibly exiting, and the last 60 seconds was amazing. 

[Corvinus85]

Just came back, and I feel ecstatic. I actually teared up at the end, between Vader being such a badass and Leia and her talk of hope.

The theater was generally silent except for laughter at the humorous moments. But there were no cheers throughout the movie like there were with The Force Awakens. But when it ended, the room just exploded in cheers and applause.

Right now this is definitely among my top 3 Star Wars films. The visuals were extraordinary.

The acting was solid all around, and the characters were OK to good. I agree with the general assessment that K-2SO and Chirrut were the best characters, but Baze was also a pleasant surprise, as was Cassian, mainly because they made him a darker character than any of the trailers implied. I also liked Saw Guerrera and the parallels between him and Vader. The scene where the pilot, Bhodi, stares in fear at Saw as he starts breathing in his apparatus sold me on this movie.

I thought it started a bit clunky, but after that I thought it picked up nicely. The battle of Scarif was amazing start to finish. But there a few things that were forced in there for the sake of the plot. Why were the waves of destruction caused by the Death Star so slow considering that the entirety of Alderaan blew up in a second? Why did the meeting between Director Krennic and Galen Erso have to take place outside in the rain?

Liked the Easter eggs, too. 

I was prepared to be disappointed with Vader after his dialogue with Krennic (but yay for seeing his fortress and that he had acolytes) until that moment at the end. Oh, how joyous that was. However, you could hear the advanced age in James Earl Jones's voice.

And yes, it would have been better with less CG Tarkin, but I still I applaud LucasFilm for making a real effort in bringing all those characters back. Gold Leader, Red Leader, and Leia. Well done!!! And they made the Death Star have a good role in the movie, so Tarkin had to be there.

I also thought they tied it really well with the original. And not just by killing off all the main characters, a ballsy move, but also other stuff, like all the Rebel capital ships getting destroyed or captured, thus explaining why only fighters were left to defend Yavin 4. But I hope the Ghost got away. Also, they added a whole new squadron of fighters to the Rebel fleet, and then they wiped it all out. 

On the music, I thought Giacchino did a good enough job blending the classic Star Wars themes with his style. None of the songs stood out for me, though, except maybe the bittersweet one at the end. It reminded me of his work on Star Trek.

One nitpick - in all the movies, including this one, all the imperial officers have been clean shaven. I guess this rule must not apply to lowly cargo pilots, because Bhodi, a recent defector looked like shit from the start. And no one cared about a bearded Cassian strolling through the base.

[Ramsay B.]

I loved it. Just the scale of it was great. Seeing all the different planets, ships and the hopelessness everyone felt. The star destroyers just looming everywhere. Amazing. K-2SO also had me rolling the whole time.

Funny that a lot of stuff from the initial trailer wasn't even in it. I guess they figured the whole "I rebel" quote was a little too corny.

[C.T. Phipps]

Here's my Rogue One review: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2016/12/star-wars-rogue-one-review.html

[Slurktan]

Sporadic thoughts on the movie and some posts:

I liked it.  Certainly better than the profoundly mediocre Force Awakens.

I actually quite liked Tarkin.  Sure the CG was off, but the CG was off on 90% of the aliens too;particularly the shorter ones oddly enough.  He's a character that needed to be in it and I'm glad they did it.(At least as long as they got permission from any surviving Cushing family members).  And he definitely was Tarkin.

The other bad guy..... was kind of terrible actually.  But then I guess he's supposed to be.  Kind of an Ozzel, pre Ozzel sort of incompetence.

The biggest thing to me is just how completely and utterly incompetent Stormtroopers are.  The guys on the desert Jedi planet might easily have been transferred to Endor they way they handled a stick and being kicked.   Then on Scarif.... yes I get the whole "I am one with the force thing" but they were like 10 feet away.  I mean, come the fuck on. They should have had the Fett clones still going cause the clones actually do work in both the movies and tv shows.  Come to think of it, maybe that will be the Boba Fett movie, getting rid of his clones.

The  big problem as noted was R2 and Threepio not being on Leia's ship. Not sure why in that hallway shot of the guy going to Leia they couldn't have been passed in a side hall or even in the background of the room where Leia was.

Also not sure how one wouldn't think that was Mustafar, lava planet and the interior of the buildings had the exact same look as the interiors from Episode 3. The entrance of Vader on Mustafar is a glorious shot, perfect angle and lighting and the shadow,  Just beautiful.

One last silly note... I was so hoping (after they showed Gold leader, Red Leader, and the other Gold Y-Wing dude) that Porkins would have been in it.  I'm still telling myself in my heart of hearts it was him who bombed the shit out of Galen.

[ab aeterno]

6 hours ago, Werthead said:

I was actually deeply underwhelmed by the musical score. I thought it was weak. Not offensively bad, but I couldn't remember a single motif from it, compared to The Force Awakens having a really good soundtrack.

If I had to pick a single weakest element from RO, it would be the soundtrack. Then again, I thought that TFA's soundtrack was very good, but not great. After a few viewings, I was able to identify a couple of stand-out scores (the Village Attack at the beginning and March of the Resistance,) but I think all 6 other Skywalker Saga films have at least 1 better piece, and a number of them have two. In fact, I'd probably say that there are at least two pieces of music in every other Star Wars film that are more memorable than anything in TFA.

2 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

 The second issue I had was darkness. Morally grey characters are not what I am personally looking for in a Star Wars story. I know people have been clamoring for this, but a simple tale of good vs evil is all I really want from this series. Characters can turn either way, but I find it a strength of the series to tell a classic story rather than a weakness. I found myself loving no one in this movie. 

I wouldn't want all SW movies to be this dark, but I am glad they went there with RO. I think it adds flavour to the universe, because if everyone is as good and admirable as the Jedi, then what exactly is the point of the Jedi? The truth is that especially in the prequels, the good guys are generally such good guys that at times the Jedi look pretty morally grey by comparison, which is a bit bizarre. 

More generally, I like seeing people being forced to survive, to really see the impact of the Empire on the galaxy. Honestly, think back on the other movies - yes, they started a couple of wars for their own gain, but otherwise, the "evil" Sith mostly just walk around cackling and talking about revenge or power. I mean hell, outside of Alderaan (Tarkin) and Kashyyyk, we don't even see the Empire do anything particularly oppressive:

ANH: They arrest Leia and impound her ship, which absolutely is carrying stolen military secrets. They conduct a relatively restrained operation on Tatooine; and they attempt to destroy a moon that is largely uninhabited other than by a small group engaged in armed conflict against them.

ESB: They attack a Rebel military installation. They occupy a mining platform (peacefully) that is harbouring the people who attacked and destroyed a military installation.

RoTJ: They did... nothing particularly evil at all, as far as I can recall. 

 

[Jedi Renee]

3 hours ago, Slurktan said:

Sporadic thoughts on the movie and some posts:

I liked it.  Certainly better than the profoundly mediocre Force Awakens.

I actually quite liked Tarkin.  Sure the CG was off, but the CG was off on 90% of the aliens too;particularly the shorter ones oddly enough.  He's a character that needed to be in it and I'm glad they did it.(At least as long as they got permission from any surviving Cushing family members).  And he definitely was Tarkin.

The other bad guy..... was kind of terrible actually.  But then I guess he's supposed to be.  Kind of an Ozzel, pre Ozzel sort of incompetence.

The biggest thing to me is just how completely and utterly incompetent Stormtroopers are.  The guys on the desert Jedi planet might easily have been transferred to Endor they way they handled a stick and being kicked.   Then on Scarif.... yes I get the whole "I am one with the force thing" but they were like 10 feet away.  I mean, come the fuck on. They should have had the Fett clones still going cause the clones actually do work in both the movies and tv shows.  Come to think of it, maybe that will be the Boba Fett movie, getting rid of his clones.

The  big problem as noted was R2 and Threepio not being on Leia's ship. Not sure why in that hallway shot of the guy going to Leia they couldn't have been passed in a side hall or even in the background of the room where Leia was.

Also not sure how one wouldn't think that was Mustafar, lava planet and the interior of the buildings had the exact same look as the interiors from Episode 3. The entrance of Vader on Mustafar is a glorious shot, perfect angle and lighting and the shadow,  Just beautiful.

One last silly note... I was so hoping (after they showed Gold leader, Red Leader, and the other Gold Y-Wing dude) that Porkins would have been in it.  I'm still telling myself in my heart of hearts it was him who bombed the shit out of Galen.

Who ever bombed galen sucks! (Or really who gave the orders) 

The mustafa thing I wasn't sure on as it did look different to me and it was something from the eu/legends and we all no most of the eu has been wiped. Glad it's confirmed and is canon tho 

[felice]

I mostly thought it was great, but a bit disappointed at the way it set up the beginning of A New Hope. Leia's ship should have been on it's way to Tatooine to pick up Kenobi, and had the plans beamed to it from the battle. For Leia to be physically present and the plans handed over in person, and the Star Destroyer hot on her heels, just doesn't fit. There's no way they can claim to be a diplomatic mission that intercepted no transmissions when Vader chased them straight from the flagship of a Rebel fleet attacking an Imperial facility.

3 hours ago, ab aeterno said:

I mean hell, outside of Alderaan (Tarkin) and Kashyyyk, we don't even see the Empire do anything particularly oppressive

Murdering billions of civillians as a demonstration is a pretty big "outside". Nobody on the Imperial side seemed to have any objection to Tarkin's orders, and it's not like the Death Star was a little side project Tarkin had set up behind the Emperor's back.

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, felice said:

Murdering billions of civillians as a demonstration is a pretty big "outside". Nobody on the Imperial side seemed to have any objection to Tarkin's orders, and it's not like the Death Star was a little side project Tarkin had set up behind the Emperor's back.

This movie did remind me just how overblown that was from a narrative point of view, blowing up an entire planet. Leia should be a jibbering wreck for the rest of the trilogy really. It spoils would should be nicer moments, Daddy Organa skipping off to tell Leia to get hold of Obi Wan, oh, where's he going again? Oh yea he's gonna get slaughtered along with his entire race. Even the positive note the film ends on of getting the plans out "in time", I'm not sure if destroying the Death Star after it commits the most horrific act of genocide in the history of the galaxy is quite the win it's portrayed as. But then, it's Star Wars, I guess the Rebublic being the most obscenely evil people ever is baked in.

1 hour ago, felice said:

Leia's ship should have been on it's way to Tatooine to pick up Kenobi, and had the plans beamed to it from the battle. For Leia to be physically present and the plans handed over in person, and the Star Destroyer hot on her heels, just doesn't fit.

Was that the ship she's on at the beginning of ANH then, she didn't change ships? I intentionally didn't watch ANH for ages to go in fresh and not just spotting connections the whole time.

[Corvinus85]

31 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

This movie did remind me just how overblown that was from a narrative point of view, blowing up an entire planet. Leia should be a jibbering wreck for the rest of the trilogy really. It spoils would should be nicer moments, Daddy Organa skipping off to tell Leia to get hold of Obi Wan, oh, where's he going again? Oh yea he's gonna get slaughtered along with his entire race. Even the positive note the film ends on of getting the plans out "in time", I'm not sure if destroying the Death Star after it commits the most horrific act of genocide in the history of the galaxy is quite the win it's portrayed as. But then, it's Star Wars, I guess the Rebublic being the most obscenely evil people ever is baked in.

Was that the ship she's on at the beginning of ANH then, she didn't change ships? I intentionally didn't watch ANH for ages to go in fresh and not just spotting connections the whole time.

Yes, it was definitely the ship, down to the uniform of the captain (who is the guy Vader chokes in ANH).

Personally I am ok with Leia's ship being there, and Vader showing up when he did. It makes him tracking the ship more believable. If he was at the battle and she was light-years away, he really would have had to high tail it out of there. 

[C.T. Phipps]

I agree with the "darker and edgier tone" not being what I want from Star Wars.

Also, the villain was weak.

Very weak.

[Corvinus85]

49 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I agree with the "darker and edgier tone" not being what I want from Star Wars.

Also, the villain was weak.

Very weak.

Yes, the type of villain always destined to get the force choke from Vader, even if he had survived the final battle.

[Rhom]

I enjoyed the movie.  I'm okay with the darker tone of the movie for the side stories.  I liked that the rebels were acknowledged to have done some bad things to achieve their ends.  It was a bit edgier than I ever thought Disney would go.   

Otherwise, much of my thoughts on the film itself are expressed by other posters.

Here's what surprised me though, we went to the same theater in Louisville that we went to for a late night showing of TFA last year.  The atmosphere couldn't have been more different. There were not groups of people standing around waiting to get in.  There wasn't an air of jubilation.  I saw a couple guys in Chewbacca onesies, but not groups of people dressed up like last year.  The crowd just didn't have the same energy.  It was a bit of a bummer overall TBH.

As I say though, the movie delivered everything I wanted as an adult Star Wars fan.  I don't know that I want to take my son next week like I did with TFA though.

[Corvinus85]

Did anyone else chuckle at the set layout outside the bunker door? I felt like I was about to watch a Mass Effect play demo. All those boxes, neatly laid out to provide good cover for the rebel heroes. 

[C.T. Phipps]

23 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Did anyone else chuckle at the set layout outside the bunker door? I felt like I was about to watch a Mass Effect play demo. All those boxes, neatly laid out to provide good cover for the rebel heroes. 

 I felt oddly like the Death Star plans were being guarded by Saren. That surf world really looked like his base.

Also, were the Imperials driving a Mako on Jedha?

[Corvinus85]

I would like to point out that even after this movie, Darth Vader's record as a battle commander is still spotless, in keeping with Anakin's legacy as one of the top generals in the Clone Wars.

Sure he had other failures, but Vader, as primary battle commander, has not been defeated as far as canon goes.

[Rhom]

3 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I would like to point out that even after this movie, Darth Vader's record as a battle commander is still spotless, in keeping with Anakin's legacy as one of the top generals in the Clone Wars.

Sure he had other failures, but Vader, as primary battle commander, has not been defeated as far as canon goes.

That last couple of minutes of Vader action was exactly what I wanted from him in this movie. 

[Corvinus85]

2 minutes ago, Rhom said:

That last couple of minutes of Vader action was exactly what I wanted from him in this movie. 

Oh absolutely. I was hoping he would do that against the main characters, but even so it was a glorious scene.