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Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

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2 hours ago, Geddus said:

Even if we pretend that the timeline does fit (it doesn't, at all) why would Ned keep Robert's child with Lyanna hidden from Robert?

Cersei’s a jealous woman.

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6 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Cersei’s a jealous woman.

Back then, Cersei was not Mrs Bobby B yet.

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7 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Cersei’s a jealous woman.

When he learned of Jon & Stannis investigating Bob's bastards, Ned's reaction wasn't "ZOMG, Robert has a bastard!", but "ZOMG, why would anyone care?".

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35 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Cersei’s a jealous woman.

Cersei wasn't Robert's wife yet. And I'm not even sure she would ever have been, had Ned come back with Bobby B's son from Lyanna.

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On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:06 PM, Jon_Stargaryen said:

That's the same basic principle. Rhaegar befriending Arthur and Ashara befriending Elia doesn't create a relationship between them.

It's not about shaming him publicly. Ned didn't even want Jaime in his house, and advocated (along with Stannis) for having him take the black.

How does that mesh with hiding another oath-breaker's secrets?

Ned has several character flaws:

  • He's too trusting (Littlefinger)
  • He's too compassionate (Cersei/Joffrey)
  • He's loyal to those who don't deserve it (Robert)

Returning their sword was a pretty big thing.

There are other options, but none of them are very solid/convincing.

Lord Stargaryen , sir why all the Robert hate ?

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It's just laughable how some people scramble to give Jon really any parentage except his actual one... I mean Robert? Seriously?

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I believe R+L=J, but even if this happens to be not true somehow, I don't think Robert is close to being in contention.

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On 4/14/2018 at 6:28 AM, the trees have eyes said:

As to the bolded: why do you think this might be?

The same reason people are frequently best pleased by the tooth fairy and trickle-down economics: sometimes things that aren't true still make people feel good.

On 4/14/2018 at 6:28 AM, the trees have eyes said:

But to repeat myself, I have never seen a theory which more convincingly pieces things together and offers a satisfactory explanation for Ned's behaviour and memories and Rhaegar, Lyanna or the 3 KG's actions (I mean are we really and seriously being asked to consider an incestuous union between Brandon and Lyanna?)

Well, certainly not by me.  Regarding your idea that you have been convinced by R+L=J, I find no fault in that.  I'm sure you have been.

On 4/14/2018 at 6:28 AM, the trees have eyes said:

Also, I understand that the Books and Show diverge but there is an inconvenient fact there that some people are trying hard to block out.  It really does look like denial to me.  Sometimes you just have to let it go.

I can't see I see anything very inconvenient, myself.  We have two different realities implemented in two wildly different ways.  

Just to make my point, let's consider an exceptionally silly theory that somebody, somewhere might make up.

Let's imagine that Rhaegar actually annulled his marriage to Elia and then married Lyanna.

Practically no book fans (not serious ones, anyway) could possibly endorse this idea, or ever have, for reasons too numerous to recount here... so I'll just say "Rhaegar had two children," while trying not to laugh, and let it go at that.

So... if such a theory were to be posited.... would serious book fans believe it? Or laugh it off as the ill-informed fever dream of someone who had little to no clue what he or she was talking about and who was, you know, making up some wacky shit?  

I'd have to guess the second.  Unless they were trying to block out inconvenient facts, that is. 

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On 4/15/2018 at 7:03 AM, Ygrain said:

BTW, the Corn king theory was rejected by GRRM, so it doesn't matter what it relates to or not.

I have no argument with you or R+L=J for that matter.But can you link me to this please?

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7 minutes ago, redriver said:

I have no argument with you or R+L=J for that matter.But can you link me to this please?

I'm afraid not, someone reported it here from a con, I think, and I've seen it referenced around several times since. I was never invested in it, so I didn't look for the link.

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On 4/15/2018 at 9:51 AM, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

Lord Stargaryen , sir why all the Robert hate ?

Robert was a piece of shit in a crown, who cost the realm thousands in gold and lives. He has almost no redeeming qualities, with the acceptation of his (former) fighting abilities. 

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On 16/04/2018 at 7:50 AM, JNR said:

The same reason people are frequently best pleased by the tooth fairy and trickle-down economics: sometimes things that aren't true still make people feel good.

Well, certainly not by me.  Regarding your idea that you have been convinced by R+L=J, I find no fault in that.  I'm sure you have been.

I can't see I see anything very inconvenient, myself.  We have two different realities implemented in two wildly different ways.  

Just to make my point, let's consider an exceptionally silly theory that somebody, somewhere might make up.

Let's imagine that Rhaegar actually annulled his marriage to Elia and then married Lyanna.

Practically no book fans (not serious ones, anyway) could possibly endorse this idea, or ever have, for reasons too numerous to recount here... so I'll just say "Rhaegar had two children," while trying not to laugh, and let it go at that.

So... if such a theory were to be posited.... would serious book fans believe it? Or laugh it off as the ill-informed fever dream of someone who had little to no clue what he or she was talking about and who was, you know, making up some wacky shit?  

I'd have to guess the second.  Unless they were trying to block out inconvenient facts, that is. 

A little defensive don't you think?

Most peope I know don't believe in the tooth fairy either so you didn't answer the question or even try to really, just deflected it and tried to write something clever.  I guess you didn't have a serious answer to the question so ducked it.

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R+L=J is a bit boring imo, cause its the first thing you think of when you hear Rhaegar "raped" Lyanna, i like R+L=J&D.

On 22.2.2018 at 4:39 AM, Yukle said:

Incest... ? Is it still the case when they're cousins?

depends on the definition, today there is almost no country which doesn't allow cousins to marry or to have sex and in westeros its a pretty normal thing, tywin married his cousin, and rickard stark married his father's cousin.

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On 2/13/2018 at 5:31 AM, manchester_babe said:

Why do book readers h8 R+L+J?

They don't.

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10 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

R+L=J is a bit boring imo, cause its the first thing you think of when you hear Rhaegar "raped" Lyanna, i like R+L=J&D.

depends on the definition, today there is almost no country which doesn't allow cousins to marry or to have sex and in westeros its a pretty normal thing, tywin married his cousin, and rickard stark married his father's cousin.

In ancient Rome, it only counted on your father's side. Cousins/uncles/aunts on dad's side = incest. On mum's side = fine. Strange, eh?

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28 minutes ago, Yukle said:

In ancient Rome, it only counted on your father's side. Cousins/uncles/aunts on dad's side = incest. On mum's side = fine. Strange, eh?

Wft :lol:

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On 28/04/2018 at 1:03 AM, Yukle said:

In ancient Rome, it only counted on your father's side. Cousins/uncles/aunts on dad's side = incest. On mum's side = fine. Strange, eh?

Really?  So your mother is brought into your father's family but none of her relatives count? That's an interesting (and very patriarchal) take on what constitues "family"!

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I tend to think that a lot of those who frequent this part of the forum strongly dislike the show. While I don't disagree with that dislike, the fact that R+L=J happened in the show can unconsciously turn them off to the theory. This definitely doesn't apply to all forum goers or book readers, but it has been a trend I noticed.

 

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9 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

Really?  So your mother is brought into your father's family but none of her relatives count? That's an interesting (and very patriarchal) take on what constitues "family"!

Rome was so "patriarchal" that the worst crime, and the most severely punished, was patricide.

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