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[Spoilers] Episode 803 Discussion

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Posted (edited)

Unfortunately D&D  have long proven to have the mentality of the stereotypical Hollywood producers -  underestimating the intelligence of the audience and going for clichés and fan service.

They always value the momentary gratification of the casual viewers far more than having a cohesive story arks and the sound mythology.  Just like with Beyond the Wall episode  when they believed that the visual impact of the action would make people ignore  the stupidity of the mission and all the plot holes.

 

Arya doing something mega-bad-ass is wonderful and I am all for it, but  having her kill the NK undermined all the Azor Ahai, PTWP stories, the entire Rhaegar  and Lyanna drama,  even Bran's story. Because, let’s be honest - on the show, the only important thing Bran learned from his trip beyond the wall was R+L=J  - and this  now has absolutely no relevance for the White walkers story.

Did Hodor die for this?

Edited by Razha

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7 hours ago, Aderyn said:

Yes it was the Starks. They punched and clawed their way through the stone tombs... Which I thought pretty impressive. Stark wights must have some special powers, otherwise the whole army of the dead would have stormed Winterfell by simply fisting through the walls...

I assume it’s because the outside walls are too thick to punch through but the inside walls are thinner.

 

7 hours ago, AndréaV said:

Sorry, haven't read the books in awhile, can someone remind me what's the difference between the AA prophecy and the TPTWP one? Thanks!!

AA is a R’hllor related prophecy and TPTWP is Targaryen/the Seven. They could be referring to the same person or situation, but told from different religious or cultural narratives.

 

1 hour ago, darmody said:

Wasn't getting hammer-chested and his family slaughtered enough?

His family being slaughtered was his fault not his punishment. Not a Rhaegar fan!

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Arya was badass, but she always is.  

Lyanna Mormont was fierce to the end, good on her.  

Melissandre in spite of all her child burning fanaticism did come through and buy Winterfell time.  

I hope that some of the Daeny hate will die down now, when the Khaleesi fell of her dragon she picked up a dragon glass sword and stood her ground.  Brienne would have been proud.  

 

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One thing to keep in mind~ the show is called GoT, that is their primary focus. Books obviously ASOIAF, that is endgame. Or at least I hope that is why we have seen things play out the way we have..... Otherwise will be very disappointed.

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8 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Not as great an episode as I'd hoped.  Mostly dark and murky and increasingly hopeless until the last two minutes.  I couldn't really see much of what was going on.

Dead count?  Theon, Grey Worm (I think), Beric, Jorah, Melisandre.  Anyone else?

Bran was pretty much useless.

Most worthwhile moments were Sansa and Tyrion.

 

 

I think well find out more deaths next week. Last week saw of Jaime and Brienne they were being ravaged by Wights so we don't know at this point if they survived. 

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8 minutes ago, Imp Beyond the Wall said:

Arya was badass, but she always is.  

Lyanna Mormont was fierce to the end, good on her.  

Melissandre in spite of all her child burning fanaticism did come through and buy Winterfell time.  

I hope that some of the Daeny hate will die down now, when the Khaleesi fell of her dragon she picked up a dragon glass sword and stood her ground.  Brienne would have been proud.  

 

Well it was either pick up the sword or die, it was hardly a difficult choice. 

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25 minutes ago, J. S. said:

Can anyone convince me of how is it a good strategy to wait for the enemy OUTSIDE your castle walls? Ty

To try push them back before they get inside the castle, which if you can help it, you don't want the enemy to get inside. 

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4 hours ago, Error-504 said:

That simply isn't true. what your upset about is the fact neither of them was the one to kill the NK. And that is the part people fail to understand. You don't have to be the one that kills the NK to be instrumental in allowing that to happen. It was a collective effort, need to stop being so fixated on who delivered the kill shot. 

My thought exactly. I think its so cool that Arya killed him, and certainly something I didn't see coming, I thought Bran was a goner, and then I thought Arya was a goner too for a second. The Living fought as one, they all played their part. 

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2 minutes ago, cirah1712 said:

Well it was either pick up the sword or die, it was hardly a difficult choice. 

Daeny gets criticized for being imperious and acting entitled, "mad queen" and so on, but really all along her journey any sign of weakness could have been disastrous.   I like seeing that she backs up her claim with actual courage.  She fights at the head of her army.  Granted that is easier of the back of a huge dragon, but once she was thrown off she did not crumble.  She fought by Jorah's side.  It was heroic.  I think it should be acknowledged.  

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Just now, Imp Beyond the Wall said:

Daeny gets criticized for being imperious and acting entitled, "mad queen" and so on, but really all along her journey any sign of weakness could have been disastrous.   I like seeing that she backs up her claim with actual courage.  She fights at the head of her army.  Granted that is easier of the back of a huge dragon, but once she was thrown off she did not crumble.  She fought by Jorah's side.  It was heroic.  I think it should be acknowledged.  

Yeah me too, I like Daenerys, she has always fought for her people, it maybe wasn't as heroin as all that, as it was a case of fight or die, but still many would of chose death, so she should be applauded for that. 

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1 hour ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

Something is troubling me about this. Cercei. That bitch gets away with everything!

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Cercei and the south NEVER have to deal with the night king and army of the dead! WTF? Cercei just gets to keep on being Cercei and the North became the wall without magic ice. 

Now we return you to the dreary battle over who rules the 7 kingdoms with Daenerys's army wiped out.

I'm still unraveling my emotions from this episode. There was a lot in there. Milesandre got to expire. She just reached her end of life and poof. Davos didn't get to kill her. I wonder if it gratified him to watch her die? Or does he have a come to the fire god moment and realize she died when she served her purpose?

Yuuuuup.  The southern half of the country never had to deal with the "existential threat" it ignored since the beginning of the story.  Wasn't all that much of an existential threat then, was it.  Their hubris was morally correct and tactically rewarded.  Severely disappointing.

But the parts that weren't too dark to see were pretty, at least.

 

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I'm a little upset that Jon and the NK didn't fight once. They have had this "Bro off" thing going on for multiple season. I would have liked to see them at least have a little fight scene. Now I was upset about TPTWP being tossed aside at first but after further thinking, its still true. The prophesy doesn't say they would be the one to kill the big bad. It just says a leader will come that will lead the world from darkness. If it wasn't for Jon, the North wouldn't have been united. They wouldn't have known about the Army of the Dead. Dany wouldn't have come to help them. So, even though bad ass Arya was the one to kill the NK, Jon still Lead them from darkness.

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1 hour ago, Razha said:

Unfortunately D&D  have long proven to have the mentality of the stereotypical Hollywood producers -  underestimating the intelligence of the audience and going for clichés and fan service.

They always value the momentary gratification of the casual viewers far more than having a cohesive story arks and the sound mythology.  Just like with Beyond the Wall episode  when they believed that the visual impact of the action would make people ignore  the stupidity of the mission and all the plot holes.

 

Arya doing something mega-bad-ass is wonderful and I am all for it, but  having her kill the NK undermined all the Azor Ahai, PTWP stories, the entire Rhaegar  and Lyanna drama,  even Bran's story. Because, let’s be honest - on the show, the only important thing Bran learned from his trip beyond the wall was R+L=J  - and this  now has absolutely no relevance for the White walkers story.

Did Hodor die for this?

True, the bottom line is the bottom line in Hollywood. All these stories can be produced with cool effects because they make a big profit while it appeals to a broad audience. The writing for profit is always going to sacrifice some of the intelligence and depth behind it. But even then writing must follow formulas. The intelligent audience must find satisfaction in the book that George R R Martin has woven into such a tangle he seems to be struggling to write himself out. 

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Posted (edited)

Nice frontal charge with light cavalry, good idea. Also nice to know 15 year old laddies with crushed inner organs can stab giants. 

Not predictable at all that Arya kills the Nights King. Good thing White walkers stayed robotic mutes forever. 

Edited by Tygett Lannister

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7 hours ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

I doubt they did it intentionally

I think they might have, much like the "a knight of the seven kingdoms" was also intentional to confirm that Brienne is a descendent of Ducan

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7 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

What of the Riverlands? What of Riverrun?

In the land of "D&D don't know what to do with them", right beside Porne

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I think the first 4/5 seasons should almost be treated as a separate entity to the last 3. They've fudged a lot of plot lines and world building but oh well.

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