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Rant & Rave without Repercussion: Burn It All Edition

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Posted (edited)

The way this show is ending D&D could have simply skipped every other season and jumped from Season 1 to S8E5. Dany gets dragons, dragons grow, Dany flies to KL on drags, KL is burnt. 

Everything else that happened in between ended up having no role in the outcome of this story. 

Ok maybe R+L=J but they way Jon's character has been butchered in the last few seasons, any random character could equally claim the throne. 

 

Edited by DK123
using correct tense

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I've been a fan for years, read the books, theorised, chatted about it with friends, at one point even was wearing all black since I was so inspired by the crows. Even if some episodes have been shit, I could still digest it because I was curious and hopeful, thinking: "I'm sure it'll have a clever  explanation later-on."

Now I haven't even watched the two last episodes - I just quicly run over some clips on youtube. It doesn't interest me anymore, no interesting dialogues, no clever explanations to anything that has been built up for years! Fans who have been loyal to the show and books for years deserved so much better, solid smart ending with fully accomplished storylines. The show turned into a cheap pop-corn visual shit-show. The magic of GoT is gone. It is truly ruined for me. I hope GRRM will write a much better ending.

Bitter sweet? It wasn't even bitter and very far from sweet. Just tastless and dry that you need to chew for too long. Even I've taken screenwriting courses and can tell what an epic fail this script-writing has been.

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3 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

D&D: What are you, a fucking idiot? We did our research, and know that breastplate is actually just there to look tough. Most breastplate was actually made of paper, crushing weapons were never invented to compensate for it, medieval people just used swords and arrows! After extensive masturbation to isekai rape fantasy anime, we couldn't find a single maul or warhammer. So don't you tell us what's implausible when you clearly haven't done the research! 

Relevant information...

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9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

because she didn't want to burn the people alive, back then. But most importantly, because Tyrion's master genius plan included to go on the mission of the wight hunt.

 

She didn't need to burn anybody save the Lannister soldiers who would die durin battle anyway... burn the gates and the soldiers on top of the wall, maybe a couple towers of the Red Keep in order to scare the defenders, and done...

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52 minutes ago, DK123 said:

Everything else that happened in between actually had no role in the outcome of this story. 

You could say so to almost every complex story. All the other threads don't count after you know how it ends. Your moaning not a reasonable argument at all.

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I’ve said this before, but I think the problem with Dany was that her disturbing behavior was always portrayed as “girl power,” and all of us who didn’t get on board with that were the crazy ones. Now burning people alive is suddenly a bad thing and show fans are confused.

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1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’ve said this before, but I think the problem with Dany was that her disturbing behavior was always portrayed as “girl power,” and all of us who didn’t get on board with that were the crazy ones. Now burning people alive is suddenly a bad thing and show fans are confused.

:agree:

D&D said that the moment she burned the khalls was a moment where she showed she was a 'strong woman'. 

This doesn't count only for Dany but also a lot of characters. Next to that I actually think the fans of Dany rationalized a lot of her behaviour. Even now there are theories of Bran being the Big Bad because he warged Dany (after all the theories of being the NK). Bran's biggest crime was one time he was being childish and warged Hodor with terrible consequences. That is the only time but people keep believing for some reason he is the great evil :dunno: He is non-existant, boring, a bot, useless but not evil. (BTW Bran is my favourite human character. He is just terribly written by D&D.

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This episode filled me with immense joy: " can't believe this will be over in ONE week". Just one week and it will be gone, to be forgotten slowly. Back to square one: 2011 July - ADWD is just released. This show will never exist for me. I remember being worried about being spoiled by show circa 2015. Now that they are done, I do not feel spoiled even slightly. Back to 2011 July. YAY!

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52 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’ve said this before, but I think the problem with Dany was that her disturbing behavior was always portrayed as “girl power,” and all of us who didn’t get on board with that were the crazy ones. Now burning people alive is suddenly a bad thing and show fans are confused.

What was so "disturbing" about her behavior when Dany - for instance - put 2 of her 3 "children" in chains and condemned them to a terrible life (and death, because they stopped feeding) in a dark dungeon - so that they couldn't harm people???

It was Tyrion the protector of the innocent who unchained them. Not Dany.

Why now ridicule the Dany fans - instead of the writers.

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12 minutes ago, Torienne said:

What was so "disturbing" about her behavior when Dany - for instance - put 2 of her 3 "children" in chains and condemned them to a terrible life (and death, because they stopped feeding) in a dark dungeon - so that they couldn't harm people???

It was Tyrion the protector of the innocent who unchained them. Not Dany.

Why now ridicule the Dany fans - instead of the writers.

I wasn’t ridiculing Dany fans. My point was that the show runners always portrayed Dany burning people as empowering and evidence of her destiny to rule, rather than something that is insanely cruel, far more so than beheadings or stabbings. It was cruel when Stannis did it, and it was cruel when Dany did it.

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I was honestly surprised by how easily the Golden Company and the Ironborn fleet were taken down. After seasons of D&D building up Cersei as a legitimate threat to Dany, it was quite shocking to see her forces fold so quickly, especially given how completely they dominated hers last episode.

Still, I suppose it was in keeping with how they typically write battles. They don't know how to do anything but surprise attacks where one side completely annihilates the other. Maybe I should've seen it coming after all.

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I haven't had a chance to read all the comments, I just haven't had the time. 

But here is my rant. Be warned, I'm a bit angry and disappointed. 

I actually felt slightly sorry that Varys died in the show, whereas in the book I kind of can't wait to see how he dies. I have a feeling it could be Arya that kills him, but I could be totally wrong. 

Also Euron and Jaime? I mean WTF? I just don't get it?  Where was the lead up? What was the point? I so hate how they destroyed both their characters. I'm not really an Iron Born fan, but they really tamed Euron and the irks me. Euron was meant to make Ramsey look like a tame puppy, I'm not sure why they held back on that one.  
And Jaime.... really, reallly hate how his story line ended with him regressing to what he was before  the series started. Did they really just have Jaime leave Cersei at the end of season 7 to fuck Brienne? What a pathetic, forced plot point that was. It reduces Brienne to just a knotch on a bedpost and throws any of Jaime's redemption arc out the window (pun not intended... or is it?). 

ANd Cersei's death! Is it sad that I still held onto a thin strand of hope that Jaime will kill Cersei in their last moments?  

Cleganbowl... I'm torn between how I feel about it. I want the Hound to kill him in the books, I really do. But at the same time, I hope it doesn't happen. It feels fan fictiony, but maybe that's because of all the hype. 

Jon Snow- his character has been pointless for awhile now. Why did they bring him back from the dead? What purpose has or will he serve? What is the point? If it's just to fall in love with Dany to then kill her.... that just feels forced. If he was still dead then Dany wouldn't have gone mad because she wouldn't have felt threatened by his claim. 
It's sad because in the books Jon is my favourite character. It's not necessarilly the acting that's done it, but the fact that the writers havent given him much to go on. They have been giving his lines to other characters for seasons now, bt this episode they basically had him running around, losing control of his men and just looking dumbstruck. Why did anyone choose hin to be king?

Arya - Her scenes looked good. But why have her get almost to Cersei to then be turned away so that we can see the destruction of the city throw her eyes? Couldn't she have got to Cersei, but someone else kill Cersei first? Or something. It just felt too forced. 
And was that Shadowfax I saw at the end there? 

Tyrion. Wow... They really don't know how to write him. Ever since they past the books he has fallen flat. Also, when he was waiting for the bells to ring I was taken to LotR, Return of the King, where Gandalf gets Pippin to climb the tower to light the beacon and thought that Tyrion was going to do the same thing with te bells... I'm kind of glad they didn't... but at the same time it would have given Tyrion something to do. 

Dany - They really needed to  forshadow this change into madness more. I'm not upset that they did this, I always thought she would go mad or atleast have her story be a tragedy where she see herself become her father or something along those line. But it can't just be a switch. D&D, for some reason, think that sudden, surprising, shocking moments is how to subvert tropes. But audiences demand more these days. They want entertainment that is intelligent and challengng. This could have been done so much better and still have the audience in shock.... But D&Dseem to miss the point...

Golden company? What Golden Company?

Same with the Iron Born fleet. 

I'm sure I've missed some things, but it's getting late.

I did like the visuals and a lot of the acting was done well (provided they were given things to actually work with).  Tyrion and Jaime's goodbye was heartfelt (even if I was against Tyrion actually caring about Cersei in the end).

Will I watch the next episode? Probably... but only because I need to see this through now. 

I really can't wait for the books. 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Tijgy said:

I think this season actually gave Emilia really the possibility to show her acting skills instead of doing all the time those speeches/being regal which are IMO her weak point. 

For seasons I didn't really like her acting. This season however is Emilia really doing fine. 

I agree. Plus, even now, after all she did, I still like her better than Cersei (or Sandra). After 70 episodes of building an evil Cersei one instance of showing her as a kind and loving woman ( I’m exaggerating a bit here) changes nothing in my perception. Same goes for Dany. All those “I could tell because look how she burned that one” don’t really count as foretelling as what Cersei did to the Sand Snakes didn’t count or what Ned did to that NW dude doesn’t count as madness. It looks perfectly normal for nobles and rulers to execute subjects in a society like the one in GoT. 

Edited by hewman

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On 5/14/2019 at 12:21 AM, MagicPen said:

I'm not sure what you mean?  Insanity is not something you prevent, and sometimes its a losing battle.

I mean it makes no sense narrative-wise.  To have Dany be actually mad defeats the purpose of all those scenes in which she questions herself (and is proven to be not mad).

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2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

You could say so to almost every complex story. All the other threads don't count after you know how it ends. Your moaning not a reasonable argument at all.

And you're blinded by fanboyism, defending this garbage nonstop. Two can play this game you know.

Calling someone moaning when you're defending the obvious mess is ironic.

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3 hours ago, DK123 said:

The way this show is ending D&D could have simply skipped every other season and jumped from Season 1 to S8E5. Dany gets dragons, dragons grow, Dany flies to KL on drags, KL is burnt. 

Everything else that happened in between ended up having no role in the outcome of this story. 

Ok maybe R+L=J but they way Jon's character has been butchered in the last few seasons, any random character could equally claim the throne. 

 

Yeah, one of the biggest issues is that the WW ultimately had less effect on the plot than Ramsay's 20 good men. No one's army was sufficiently hindered by the "long night" to affect anybody's trajectory. 

I have no problem with the people who say that the WW aren't the point. But, surely they should have had *a* point? The way it played out in the show was like if space aliens attacked earth, and Trump, Teresa May, and Vladmir Putin teamed up to take them out just before they destroyed humanity... And the next day the top news stories went right back to covering the Mueller Report.

If you didn't want the WW to be a show-stealing, what's-the-point-of-it-all begging, world stopping event, then maybe you shouldn't have added an ancient magical apocalyptic threat to your story and then treat it like nothing?

 If this was always the goal, the WW should have been replaced with a giant wildling army united under Mance Rayder: A formidable threat to the 7 kingdoms, but not a magical apocalypse that should be making everyone question every aspect of their reality.

 

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4 hours ago, athmystikal said:

But in the books they call these visions 'Green dreams', no? When it comes to dreams time is relative. Our brain runs through a dream much faster than while we are awake. According to scientists most dreams last only a few second even though the dreamer feels that it was longer. Perhaps this is applicable to Green dreams as well. So Bran could experience a 30 minute vision in a few seconds in the real world

Well, Jojen was a "greendreamer", he couldn't control when he gets those dreams and what he wants to see/dream. The powerlevel of the Three-Eyed-Crow/Raven is much higher I think. At least Bloodraven (the last Three-Eyed-Crow/Raven) could invoke visions or "dreams" as he wished. For example when he showed Bran about the origin of the Night King. And yes, I think Bran's brain can process those visions much faster then anybody, who has experienced the same in real time.

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I think it's funny to see a lot of people turning on the show just like us BUT FOR THE WRONG REASONS. A lot of casuals and people with fairly bad taste loved the fanfiction nonsense, happy endings and soap opera style the show has become but as soon as they turn a good hearted character they like, evil, that's their breaking point lol. Not the ruination of other characters like Jon, Bran, Jaime. Not the awful narrative, not the absurd plot armor, major plotholes, terrible execution, years and years of buildup thrown away for the sake of subverting expectations and just overall poor storytelling. 

Like honestly, if Dany hadn't burned those people and just killed Cersei then married Jon and had many babies together, despite the mess the show is,, a lot of these people who turned on the show would've still be loyal fans defending this garbage.

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12 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

because she didn't want to burn the people alive, back then. But most importantly, because Tyrion's master genius plan included to go on the mission of the wight hunt.

 

Well that's the thing, she doesn't need to burn anyone. She could've destroyed the gate and have her army inside the city killing everyone that stood on their way to the Red Keep and capture Cersei and her allies. Execute them, crown Dany Queen and order everyone to go north to fight the NK. All of this could've been done in 1 day as seen on this episode.

 

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On 5/12/2019 at 11:20 PM, Rockroi said:

NOTHING would indicate that she was going to BBQ a city full of innocent people. 

You mean other than the times she explicitly said that’s what she’d do?  

Her heel turn was rushed, I’ll give you that, but it was always clear with the benefit of hindsight that Dany was going to raze King’s Landing.

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