US Politics: “How did we come to this...”

[Ran]

I'm very interested in learning more about how this came about, because part of me wonders if this isn't basically Barr and the rightwing old guard thinking that Biden's going to win the election and they have to push through the rest of the Conservative project now because there's no chance there's another term coming. My understanding was that that up to now, the administration was at least tacitly waiting until after the election to go after this.

[Fragile Bird]

On a totally different topic, Mayor De Blasio of NYC has ordered the words Black Lives Matter be painted on the street in front of Trump Tower, the way the mayor of Washington, DC painted the street leading to the WH.
Nice!

[Hereward]

5 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Obviously anyone would take a win. But part of me would roll the dice for the chance to see him utterly humiliated. To get to see his sad and confused face, while he spends the rest of his days being angry and bitter and miserable. 

He wouldn’t believe it had happened. As far as he is concerned, people love him so it must have been voter fraud or a deep state coup. 

[Ormond]

10 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

 

NASCAR took a look at 1684 garage stalls at their 29 tracks and found only 11 with rope pull-downs tied into a knot and only one where the rope had been formed into a noose.

They do know it was there last October. I wonder if the FBI asked about the person who assigned the garage stall. The determination that no hate crime had occurred was based on the fact that nobody knew Wallace would have that garage stall last week.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/25/nascar-noose-photo-talladega-bubba-wallace

 

ps 131 days until the election.

It seems to me that it might be very relevant that this may have been created in October. There are unfortunately a lot of people out there who think putting up nooses as part of Halloween decorations is cool. I think that's sick myself, but it could just have been Halloween on the mind of the person who originally created this. 

And although it should be checked out, it sort of would boggle my mind if the person assigning stalls would have known anything about the configuration of small pull ropes in any garage. 

4 hours ago, Ran said:

I'm very interested in learning more about how this came about, because part of me wonders if this isn't basically Barr and the rightwing old guard thinking that Biden's going to win the election and they have to push through the rest of the Conservative project now because there's no chance there's another term coming. My understanding was that that up to now, the administration was at least tacitly waiting until after the election to go after this.

That may be part of it. However, on one of the news networks this morning it was said that the Trump campaign's strategy is to fire up his base and keep them enthusiastic, with the expectation that even though there is no way they can get the majority of potential voters to go for Trump, they might be able to get his voters to show up at the polls in higher numbers if they can later trash Biden enough that his potential voters become way less enthusiastic. It was said that some in the campaign know this is a dangerous strategy, but think it's the only one they can go with given the candidate they have. And trying to get rid of Obamacare again would be a way to show Trump's base he's trying to keep one of his major campaign promises.

[Maithanet]

31 minutes ago, Ormond said:

 That may be part of it. However, on one of the news networks this morning it was said that the Trump campaign's strategy is to fire up his base and keep them enthusiastic, with the expectation that even though there is no way they can get the majority of potential voters to go for Trump, they might be able to get his voters to show up at the polls in higher numbers if they can later trash Biden enough that his potential voters become way less enthusiastic. It was said that some in the campaign know this is a dangerous strategy, but think it's the only one they can go with given the candidate they have. And trying to get rid of Obamacare again would be a way to show Trump's base he's trying to keep one of his major campaign promises.

While that may indeed be the strategy they are going for, that sounds like political suicide. 

Even amongst Republican voters, repealing Obamacare was always more popular in theory than in practice.  Remember that the lowest Trump approval rating has EVER gotten was in the depths of the Obamacare debacle (December 2017, down at 37%, compared to 40% now).   Even amongst the Trump faithful, I think the vast majority of them will admit that America has bigger problems right now than Obamacare. 

And that ties into why Trump has been failing so badly the past month.  Trump just doesn't have an answer to America's problems.  COVID is killing thousands, but Trump is proudly anti-mask and organizing rallies that infect his own staff?  Systemic racism has led to widespread protests, and Trump is advocating for Confederate statues?  

Trump has no reelection message.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 hours ago, Ran said:

I'm very interested in learning more about how this came about, because part of me wonders if this isn't basically Barr and the rightwing old guard thinking that Biden's going to win the election and they have to push through the rest of the Conservative project now because there's no chance there's another term coming. My understanding was that that up to now, the administration was at least tacitly waiting until after the election to go after this.

That's kind of been the entire Trump Administration though. He's too stupid, and frankly, ignorant to understand what's going on, but the smart people around him who are rational see the writing on the wall. That's why a deal with the devil to pack the courts was an acceptable bargain to make.

9 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Trump has no reelection message.  

Of course he does, sad as it is. The liberals (now at times code for minorities) are coming for your guns and your Bibles. That still works, especially when it seems pretty easy to rig the game.

But damn, Biden +9 in FL is an odd thing to see on the box.

[DireWolfSpirit]

To the untrained eye there's probably no difference in a slipknot and a hangman noose.

However a slip knot is a prevalent item around many a blue collar setting. They are needed in building to lower and raise items over the many various levels workers may traverse over the course of a day. Think about whether your want to climb up and down a scaffold or building level, every moment you need something?

We have a carwash locally that has a noose knot on the overhead door which in the winter months is important to keep that door down. My neighbor has a slipknot to a bucket for the roofing and siding work being done on his house as I'm typing this.

Now to an office worker or non industrial worker these sights may seem foreign, but to people like me they are normal every day things I'm very used to seeing and wouldn't think of as something nefarious. Sailors, builders and others need these knots as they have for 200 years.

[Zorral]

He has a strategy.  First, it is to kill and incapacitate economically and medically as many of 'us' as possible. Second to make as many of his not-expanding base as angry and fired up as possible.  This is how it works:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/26/trumps-new-reelection-strategy-reveals-his-contempt-his-voters/

Quote

 

[....]Notably, these advisers describe a strategy that is unabashedly aimed at a minority of Americans, and are not even bothering to try to broaden Trump’s appeal. The calculation is that around 40 percent support Trump and that few additional voters can be won over, leaving only one option:

The president’s campaign advisers believe it comes down to getting a bigger proportion of the smaller group of people who love Trump to turn out than the larger group of voters who express tepid support for Biden.

This has led the campaign to “focus on plays to please the base,” the AP reports, including hyping his wall and promising Supreme Court nominees who will excite social conservatives beyond their wildest dreams.

“Most strikingly,” the AP reports, this also includes “a focus on reopening the nation’s economy over publicly dwelling on the pandemic.” [....]

 

IOW, keep pretending the pandemic isn't happening.

 

 

[aceluby]

I received an unwanted text message from the Trump campaign yesterday about how Trump oversaw the greatest economy in US history and how Biden wants to destroy it.

First off, it's laughable that they are trying this angle given the highest unemployment since the Great Depression that will likely be worse by the time election day rolls around.

Second, I looked it up, and it's 100% illegal to send out mass campaign text messages to people that have not signed up for them.  The Trump campaign has already gotten in trouble for this and has had to pay out a bunch of money because of the illegal practice.  And now instead of learning from that and maybe not doing illegal campaign things, they are fucking doubling down and doing it again.

[Gaston de Foix]

7 hours ago, Ran said:

I'm very interested in learning more about how this came about, because part of me wonders if this isn't basically Barr and the rightwing old guard thinking that Biden's going to win the election and they have to push through the rest of the Conservative project now because there's no chance there's another term coming. My understanding was that that up to now, the administration was at least tacitly waiting until after the election to go after this.

According to public reports Barr has partially opposed the administration's legal strategy: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/06/trump-supreme-court-obamacare-240366

It's politically stupid and legally incoherent.  So Trump must have personally insisted upon it.  It's going to be very hard for the SC to walk away from stare decisis here, even for the Alito and Kavanaughs of this world. 

[Ran]

1 minute ago, Gaston de Foix said:

According to public reports Barr has partially opposed the administration's legal strategy: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/06/trump-supreme-court-obamacare-240366

It's politically stupid and legally incoherent.  So Trump must have personally insisted upon it.  It's going to be very hard for the SC to walk away from stare decisis here, even for the Alito and Kavanaughs of this world. 

Good article. Gives more credence that this is Trump's flailing. 

Hard to imagine how much more badly things could have gone if his maliciousness was combined with competence. 

[Zorral]

Further, as predicted, the deathcultists blame the spiking on the Protests, not flouting safety protocols and reopening way too soon, or in fact, never having shut down and instituted the protocols at all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/26/coronavirus-live-updates-us/

Quote

 

[....]McCarthy, the highest-ranking Republican in the House, was asked during an appearance on Fox News whether he was concerned about spikes in such states as Texas, Florida, Arizona and his home state of California — and whether that could have an impact on President Trump’s reelection prospects.

“I have a real concern,” McCarthy said. “Remember, we’re coming after where we saw those thousands of young people and others coming out to protest. It was a concern that they were close to one another. Now we’re seeing the outcome from that.”

While health experts cautioned that such mass gatherings could accelerate the spread of the virus, there has been scant evidence that the uptick in cases is closely correlated with states with the largest protests. In fact, one study by the National Bureau of Economic Research found no evidence that the first weeks of protests following the death of George Floyd “reignited COVID-19 case growth.”

During the interview, McCarthy cited an overhead video he had seen of a large gathering of protesters in Los Angeles.

“As more people gather together, they’re not wearing a mask, not washing their hands, not keeping social distance,” he said. “When I watched that drone video of Los Angeles, where it went for a mile, people shoulder-to-shoulder, you knew there was going to see a spike, and now we’re seeing the outcome of that.”

 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 hours ago, Ormond said:

It seems to me that it might be very relevant that this may have been created in October. There are unfortunately a lot of people out there who think putting up nooses as part of Halloween decorations is cool. I think that's sick myself, but it could just have been Halloween on the mind of the person who originally created this. 

That reminds of an old skit, from the mid 90s. When there was some sort of a German version of SNL. The skit was basically Judas (I think) and a Roman having a discussion. It basically went back and forth, about the need of Jesus being executed to build a religion upon it. They were also discussing the kind of death he was going to suffer. I can't recall the exact wording (like I said it's been over 20 years) and I am too lazy to try find the skit on the internet, but part of the dialogue went roughly like that.

What about hanging, I still have to scratch off a few of those.

Hanging? No, are you out of your mind? Should we hang tiny nooses in our churches, and around our necks? Seriously, absolutely no hanging.

3 hours ago, Ormond said:

That may be part of it. However, on one of the news networks this morning it was said that the Trump campaign's strategy is to fire up his base and keep them enthusiastic, with the expectation that even though there is no way they can get the majority of potential voters to go for Trump, they might be able to get his voters to show up at the polls in higher numbers if they can later trash Biden enough that his potential voters become way less enthusiastic. It was said that some in the campaign know this is a dangerous strategy, but think it's the only one they can go with given the candidate they have. And trying to get rid of Obamacare again would be a way to show Trump's base he's trying to keep one of his major campaign promises.

However, the anti-Trump Republicans are doing a fine job at dismantling the orange one. So I don't think the just kill the enthusiasm for Biden is gonna work. Biden is hardly the candidate that inspired enthusiasm in the first place. This will primarily be an anti-Trump election. I read a somewhat interesting opinion piece, on what can be learnt from those temporary allies. Which addresses the anti-campaigning the right is quite good at.

[Jaxom 1974]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

.

Of course he does, sad as it is. The liberals (now at times code for minorities) are coming for your guns and your Bibles. That still works, especially when it seems pretty easy to rig the game.

 

The, absolutely correct, pendulum swing in this country seems to actually be facing and dealing with its issues worries me slightly.  Not the swing. The speed.  Specifically the call to alter so many things, usually while hog. Confederate statues? Please more!  Flags going away? Couldn't happen sooner.  Columbus Day? Have at it.  Juneteenth and/or voting day are better.  

Statues of Founding Fathers...?  I agree, but I think it needs to be put into context to a degree.  History curriculums need major overhauls. 

The one that worries me actually is this apparent call to abolish the Star Spangled Banner.  Frankly I was unaware of some of the issues. I'm learning.  I'm indifferent on it going away, it simply adjusting it, but the calls to chuck it out seem to be presented in a manner that is out of context as to the why it needs to be seriously looked at.  Some of the stuff out there about it seems to be lacking proper references so it means I'm seeing people I consider generally progressive and of a liberal bent getting upset and flying off the handle before actually looking into it more.  Veterans who feel like their service is being attacked.  Enough to drive them into Trump's arms at the polling booth? Maybe not, but it's a tactic that worries me. 

 

Hope that makes sense and doesn't make me sound like I'm trying to fight against what I see as needed...

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

29 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Second, I looked it up, and it's 100% illegal to send out mass campaign text messages to people that have not signed up for them.  The Trump campaign has already gotten in trouble for this and has had to pay out a bunch of money because of the illegal practice.  And now instead of learning from that and maybe not doing illegal campaign things, they are fucking doubling down and doing it again.

I've been out of the game for a few years now, but I think there are still a number of loopholes to whatever you're reading. I get hit up by random campaigns all the time. I actually have a great deal of fun when I can teach the low level volunteer/intern how to actually be better at what they're doing.

Also, it's pretty easy for your info to find itself in some kind of database. 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

The, absolutely correct, pendulum swing in his this country seems to actually be facing and dealing with its issues worries me slightly.  Not the swing. The speed.  Specifically the call to alter so many things, usually while hog. Confederate statues? Please more!  Flags going away? Couldn't happen sooner.  Columbus Day? Have at it.  Juneteenth and/or voting day are better.  

Statues of Founding Fathers...?  I agree, but I think it needs to be put into context to a degree.  History curriculums need major overhauls. 

The one that worries me actually is this apparent call to abolish the Star Spangled Banner.  Frankly I was unaware of some of the issues. I'm learning.  I'm indifferent on it going away, it simply adjusting it, but the calls to chuck it out seem to be presented in a manner that is out of context as to the why it needs to be seriously looked at.  Some of the stuff out there about it seems to be lacking proper references so it means I'm seeing people I consider generally progressive and of a liberal bent getting upset and flying off the handle before actually looking into it more.  Veterans who feel like their service is being attacked.  Enough to drive them into Trump's arms at the polling booth? Maybe not, but it's a tactic that worries me. 

 

Hope that makes sense and doesn't make me sound like I'm trying to fight against what I see as needed...

Oh you evil Cubs fan, nothing about that doesn't make sense. And your heart seems to be in the right place, so worry not. Even if that evil @Week may be trying to cut some of your hair off. Your calf hair, specifically. But fellow Masshole @DanteGabriel is watching him, as a means to train his son. Wise parenting IMO. 

But again, jokes aside, you should probably be more worried with some of the things you didn't list than you are. 

Though to stay on your point, is it a rational conversation to have that the Founding Fathers were largely evil people? Sure. Do you think that's politically smart? No, of course not, and to argue otherwise is silly, even if you're actually 100% correct.

 

[aceluby]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've been out of the game for a few years now, but I think there are still a number of loopholes to whatever you're reading. I get hit up by random campaigns all the time. I actually have a great deal of fun when I can teach the low level volunteer/intern how to actually be better at what they're doing.

Also, it's pretty easy for your info to find itself in some kind of database. 

 

This wasn't some volunteer texting me (though I wish it was so they may have read the reply....), it was a robo-text from an 800 number.  Here's the lawsuit from when they got in trouble last year, which I think they settled out of court: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/tcpa/trump-campaign-allegedly-sent-unwanted-text-messages/

And here's a lawsuit from the 2016 campaign: https://www.thewrap.com/donald-trumps-campaign-slapped-with-class-action-lawsuit-over-robo-texts/

And ironically, he signed a bipartisan law this year increasing the fine for these unsolicited texts.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

The, absolutely correct, pendulum swing in this country seems to actually be facing and dealing with its issues worries me slightly.  Not the swing. The speed.  Specifically the call to alter so many things, usually while hog. Confederate statues? Please more!  Flags going away? Couldn't happen sooner.  Columbus Day? Have at it.  Juneteenth and/or voting day are better.  

Statues of Founding Fathers...?  I agree, but I think it needs to be put into context to a degree.  History curriculums need major overhauls. 

The one that worries me actually is this apparent call to abolish the Star Spangled Banner.  Frankly I was unaware of some of the issues. I'm learning.  I'm indifferent on it going away, it simply adjusting it, but the calls to chuck it out seem to be presented in a manner that is out of context as to the why it needs to be seriously looked at.  Some of the stuff out there about it seems to be lacking proper references so it means I'm seeing people I consider generally progressive and of a liberal bent getting upset and flying off the handle before actually looking into it more.  Veterans who feel like their service is being attacked.  Enough to drive them into Trump's arms at the polling booth? Maybe not, but it's a tactic that worries me. 

 

Hope that makes sense and doesn't make me sound like I'm trying to fight against what I see as needed...

The SSB is searingly racist and pro-slavery.  Francis Scott Key made shyte tons of profit from proving people were escaped slaves and getting them back to their 'owners' as both a lawyer and a judge.  Slavery was central to the conduct of the War of 1812 -- which is the occasion of the words to the SSB (the music is much older and is a traditional glee, a drinking round, sung even with Benjamin Franklin when visiting Annapolis).  The British offered freedom -- and gave it, despite the revisionist historians who came along immediately, and the lies the plantocracy slaveocracy told the labor force -- to any escaped slave who would help and fight for them.  They were not sold in Jamaica.  The slaveowners were still trying to force the US government to get compensation for their lost slaves right up to the War of the Rebellion.

Put the words in the SSB in the context of this, its use of slave and free -- and it becomes more clear.  There are entire books written about this, with more thoughtful citizens objecting to the SSB as a the official US anthem from the beginning.

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 minutes ago, aceluby said:

This wasn't some volunteer texting me (though I wish it was so they may have read the reply....), it was a robo-text from an 800 number.  Here's the lawsuit from when they got in trouble last year, which I think they settled out of court: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/tcpa/trump-campaign-allegedly-sent-unwanted-text-messages/

And here's a lawsuit from the 2016 campaign: https://www.thewrap.com/donald-trumps-campaign-slapped-with-class-action-lawsuit-over-robo-texts/

And ironically, he signed a bipartisan law this year increasing the fine for these unsolicited texts.

I can't say I'm familiar with the legal technicalities, but again, you do realize that there's a lot of "accidents" that are allowed, or at least ignored, right? 

[mormont]

2 hours ago, aceluby said:

 And now instead of learning from that and maybe not doing illegal campaign things, they are fucking doubling down and doing it again.

The story of Trump's life in a sentence. All it needs is the strikethrough.