Joe Abercrombie: You Say you want a revolution [SPOILERS including the new sample chapter]

[Ser Not Appearing]

I love Abercrombie's work but I agree on the audio books. I feel like it's an unnaturally good pairing and makes the books even better.

I think Red Country might be my personal favorite. I won't discuss why because of spoilers but I do enjoy more of a pioneer / wild west feel to things. It's just a different lens and feels more unique. Some of my favorite characters also appear in that one and I feel like it subtly sets the stage for a lot of the upheaval in the second trilogy.

[JGP]

 

6 hours ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

I think Red Country might be my personal favorite. I won't discuss why because of spoilers but I do enjoy more of a pioneer / wild west feel to things. It's just a different lens and feels more unique. Some of my favorite characters also appear in that one and I feel like it subtly sets the stage for a lot of the upheaval in the second trilogy.

Best Served Cold is still my favorite. Revenge is one of those rare diamond type dishes for me. 

[BigFatCoward]

On 4/13/2024 at 5:56 PM, Ser Not Appearing said:

I love Abercrombie's work but I agree on the audio books. I feel like it's an unnaturally good pairing and makes the books even better.

I think Red Country might be my personal favorite. I won't discuss why because of spoilers but I do enjoy more of a pioneer / wild west feel to things. It's just a different lens and feels more unique. Some of my favorite characters also appear in that one and I feel like it subtly sets the stage for a lot of the upheaval in the second trilogy.

first 2/3rds i'd agree with, once the resolution in Crease happened i felt it went downhill a bit. 

I agree with previous posters, BSC is his best work for me.  They are all just so deliciously reprehensible. 

[SeanF]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:38 AM, HexMachina said:

When Joe writes clichés it seems to be done in an intentional way, and there's always that Abercrombie twist that makes it his own.

BSC is probably still my favourite book of his and at its core its a run of the mill revenge story but so well done

Eta: Obligatory "please listen to the audio books because Steven Pacey is incredible"

I agree that it’s my favourite, too.  Cosca, Friendly, and Morveee, the ethical poisoner, are just hilarious.

[Veltigar]

I'll be the lone dissenter then. Didn't like BSC when I read it and The Heroes is still my favourite Abercrombie!

[BigFatCoward]

If I had to rank it would be

BSC

Heroes

BTAH

LAOK

Red Country

TBI

I find it hard to rank last 3 as I've only read them once each. I found them quite emotionally draining. No worse, but a lot less fun. 

 

[BigFatCoward]

The devil's has a pre order date of 20th May 2025 on amazon. 

[williamjm]

10 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I'll be the lone dissenter then. Didn't like BSC when I read it and The Heroes is still my favourite Abercrombie!

I think The Heroes is probably my favourite, although I did like Best Served Cold.

[HexMachina]

17 hours ago, SeanF said:

I agree that it’s my favourite, too.  Cosca, Friendly, and Morveee, the ethical poisoner, are just hilarious.

Whenever the POV switches to Morveer i know i'm in for a treat.

I think its time to re-listen

[Ser Not Appearing]

On 4/16/2024 at 10:25 AM, BigFatCoward said:

The devil's has a pre order date of 20th May 2025 on amazon. 

I'm gonna have to wait on audiobook but I've got a credit on standby.

[RedEyedGhost]

On 4/16/2024 at 4:51 AM, Veltigar said:

I'll be the lone dissenter then. Didn't like BSC when I read it and The Heroes is still my favourite Abercrombie!

Agree with this.  Read the first six twice and it didn't alter my opinion.  

[Ninefingers]

My only real gripe with Red Country was too many old characters reappearing. Make no mistake, they're characters that I like but it felt a little too 'getting the band back together' for my taste. 

[Ser Not Appearing]

5 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

My only real gripe with Red Country was too many old characters reappearing. Make no mistake, they're characters that I like but it felt a little too 'getting the band back together' for my taste. 

 

Spoiler

What do you think fed into that feeling for you? Was it just too many people you've seen before or the way they've come together or ... I'm not sure.

Thinking it through for myself ... Cosca's crowd and Logen (who we haven't seen around Cosca before) are main-ish characters that play a big role. Otherwise it's Shivers serving as a rarely seen spectre and Glama Golden as the goon at the end, right? Am I missing anyone?

Shivers is specifically hunting Logen so his appearance kinda makes sense and it felt, to me, acceptable since he was hardly in the story. If anything, his exit (hunting Logen so far away and then just walking off) felt more awkward than his existence in the story, though I think it fits with a character arc of him rediscovering his heart. Glama Golden is known but hardly important and not really a central figure in this story either. He feels like exactly the kind of character to choose.

I guess the bigger question is whether or not it's reasonable that all come together in the same place amid such a vast stretch of distance and, along those lines, it seems that everyone but Glama Golden (who kinda independently went there, I guess) was truly drawn there as opposed to just stumbling into the same place. Cosca is drawn there for military reasons, Lamb is drawn there following someone in the military (loosely defined) and Shivers is drawn there chasing Lamb. 

Just for me, it was cobbled together in a way that felt somewhat natural, mixed (big and small) characters we haven't seen together before and didn't bug me.

Curious if you can identify what about it bugged you.

 

[Ninefingers]

@Ser Not Appearing

You largely nailed it. For me it just felt contrived that:

Spoiler

Logen, Carlot dan Eider (you missed this one), and Cosca would all find themselves embroiled together half way around the world for reasons that are entirely unrelated to why we know them from before. Really felt to me like Cosca was there due to some combination of (a) he's a fan favorite, and (b) Abercrombie enjoys writing him rather than an in-story reason. 

And I really struggled with CdE's presence. She was a rich merchant who became a spy for Glotka, and now is the mayor in a small frontier town? Just doesn't track for me.

Given my handle on this board, I think it goes without saying that I love Joe's work - I just think that by choosing to reuse these old characters, it comes off as a little bit of a crutch and makes his world feel smaller. 

 

Edited April 25 by Ninefingers

[Ser Not Appearing]

9 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

@Ser Not Appearing

You largely nailed it. For me it just felt contrived that:

  Hide contents

Logen, Carlot dan Eider (you missed this one), and Cosca would all find themselves embroiled together half way around the world for reasons that are entirely unrelated to why we know them from before. Really felt to me like Cosca was there due to some combination of (a) he's a fan favorite, and (b) Abercrombie enjoys writing him rather than an in-story reason. 

And I really struggled with CdE's presence. She was a rich merchant who became a spy for Glotka, and now is the mayor in a small frontier town? Just doesn't track for me.

Given my handle on this board, I think it goes without saying that I love Joe's work - I just think that by choosing to reuse these old characters, it comes off as a little bit of a crutch and makes his world feel smaller. 

 

That one I missed definitely felt goofy. Full agree and surprised I forgot them.

[Ninefingers]

7 minutes ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

That one I missed definitely felt goofy. Full agree and surprised I forgot them.

Now that I think about it more, I'm guessing that this was some sort of give and take negotiation between Abercrombie and his publisher.

Abercrombie wanted to write a western, publisher wanted another Logen book because sales.

Adding the other first law characters was a way of making it play as a true First Law book and avoiding 'Abercrombie clearly wrote a western but just dropped Logen in as the main character' cynicism. 

(BTW, this is my feeling on Locke Lamora 2 - sure feels like the author had an unfinished pirate novel on the shelf, dusted it off, wrote a Locke beginning and ending wrap and changed names in the middle. But I digress.)

Edited April 25 by Ninefingers

[Corvinus85]

Wasn't Carlot told to leave town or die in the trilogy? The land where Red Country takes place is certainly painted as a frontier land, where plenty of people who want a fresh start or to hide can end up. So to me it makes sense for such characters to show up there. And I'm not sure if that land is bigger than the American Midwest.

Logen is the most appropriate western trope for drifter with a dark past comes into town.

[Ninefingers]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Wasn't Carlot told to leave town or die in the trilogy?

She was sent by Glotka somewhere (I forget the name) to be his spy in the city. She was told to get a loan from Valint & Balk to pay for it if memory serves. 

[SeanF]

16 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

She was sent by Glotka somewhere (I forget the name) to be his spy in the city. She was told to get a loan from Valint & Balk to pay for it if memory serves. 

She lost out - totally -in BSC.  I thought it made sense for her to try her luck in a new place.

if ever a character got handed the shitty end of the stick, it was Carlot.

Edited April 25 by SeanF

[polishgenius]

3 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

Now that I think about it more, I'm guessing that this was some sort of give and take negotiation between Abercrombie and his publisher.

 

I doubt that. Firstly, Lamb being who he is was deeply central both to the Unforgiven tribute he was doing and to several key scenes within the plot specifically. You could have done the first part with a fresh character- Unforgiven did, after all- but not the second and in any case it was just too fundamentally a story about him.

Secondly, all three standalone books feature previous characters popping up. Indeed so does the sequel trilogy. It's just something Abercrombie does, I dunno why the criticism applies in particular to Red Country. I do get why that would bother people, I've had that issue with other books and series- but Abercrombie's books aren't aiming for realism, there's an underlying sense of theatricality and self-awareness to them, so it didn't feel like a problem to me at all. 

 

 

Anyway I'm in the 'Heroes was best BSC was least best' crowd. I just felt BSC had one too many goes round the 'move on to the next target' carousel - it got a bit repetitive in the middle before it pulled it together for the end.