Jump to content

Hope for the Frey family


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
On 4/4/2022 at 3:04 PM, Hugorfonics said:

 . . . in the books nobody has blue eyes but wights, so maybe it's different. Like Mel and her ruby maybe?

There are other blue eyes in the books and I think they would conflict with the theory you propose. 

Tullys as well as Catelyn's children:

Catelyn had always thought Robb looked like her; like Bran and Rickon and Sansa, he had the Tully coloring, the auburn hair, the blue eyes. (AGoT, Catelyn III)

Renly:

In their midst, watching and laughing with his young queen by his side, sat a ghost in a golden crown.

Small wonder the lords gather around him with such fervor, she thought, he is Robert come again. Renly was handsome as Robert had been handsome; long of limb and broad of shoulder, with the same coal-black hair, fine and straight, the same deep blue eyes, the same easy smile. (ACoK, Catelyn II)

Brienne:

Brienne's eyes were large and very blue, a young girl's eyes, trusting and guileless (ACoK, Catelyn II)

Brienne looked at her with those blue and beautiful eyes. (ACoK, Catelyn VI)

If we are supposed to take eye color as a clue, the Freys and Roose Bolton would not be the symbolic wights; the Tullys, Brienne and several of Catelyns blue-eyed children would be. Like the wights, Catelyn wakes up from death and seems single-minded in her focus on killing the people who killed her (and her blue-eyed son). 

As for Melisandre's ruby, I am starting to ponder a new line of thinking. I had already figured that ruby and bury would be a wordplay pair but didn't know where to go with that. The rubies from the breastplate of Rhaegar's armor finally helped me to a new idea: what if rubies represent nipples? We are so often reminded that nipples on a breastplate are useless that I have long suspected they actually ARE important - the author likes irony and this is the kind of hint he would drop. We see nipples cut off of an Unsullied soldier and off of Khal Drogo in his battle wound that leads to his final illness. We also know that being a "milk brother" is something notable and that wet nurses are recruited for some babies whose mothers have died. Ser Duncan the Tall dreams of seeing Rohanne Webber's nipples while she shoots him full of arrows. (This is a complicated set of symbols but my point here is that Dunk is transformed after this dream and able to cross from one reality to another, leading to a resolution of the Webber / Osgrey conflict.)

Maybe this is not the thread for this discussion but I think nipples (represented by rubies) and/or breastfeeding might have the power to transition someone from one state of being to another. Returning to the wights / Frey topic, when Ser Aliser Thorne comes to King's Landing, Tyrion wants to give shovels to the Night's Watch so they can bury their dead and prevent them from coming back to life. If this is ruby / bury wordplay, it could be telling us that while rubies allow dead people (Mance is supposed to be dead) to become glamors, burial is the step that prevents some of them from waking again. (Dead Tullys are always burned in rivers, which may allow them to wake again. Big mistake by the Freys, throwing Catelyn in a river.) 

When I say "some" people are permanently dead after burial, I am remembering that Ygritte tells Jon Snow that dead people beyond the wall have to be burned in a pyre or eaten by a shadow cat that cracks their bones. These are the only ways to prevent them from being wighted. So this may be a difference between ice wights and fire wights. Ygritte's advice might also show that Tyrion doesn't know everything: his burial advice might work to prevent fire wights from reviving, but would apparently not be effective on ice wights.

Similarly, I wonder whether ice wights never get a chance to breast feed. When Craster takes his sons into the woods as offerings for the Others, maybe each baby is denied the normal opportunity to suckle at his mother's breast.

When Jon Snow is climbing the mountain behind Stonesnake and (I believe, although I may be misremembering) Sansa is descending the mountain with Mya Stone, they are told that the mountain is their mother and they should press their cheeks against their mother's breast. This could be symbolic breastfeeding and represent a transitional moment for each of them. 

Edited by Seams
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally don't think there is an abundance of hope for the Frey's. They will be whittled down at every turn. BWB, Stoneheart, Starks and the Northern Lords, Tully's and the Riverland Lords, they all want to see the down fall of this house. Piece by piece they will be eliminated. One branch may survive, but they will be greatly reduced in power. The only "friend" they have in the Lannister's will not stick their neck out for them(they have their own problems). No Lords of the Vale will give them the time of day either.

They are done, they just don't know it yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Northern Sword said:

I personally don't think there is an abundance of hope for the Frey's. They will be whittled down at every turn. BWB, Stoneheart, Starks and the Northern Lords, Tully's and the Riverland Lords, they all want to see the down fall of this house. Piece by piece they will be eliminated. One branch may survive, but they will be greatly reduced in power. The only "friend" they have in the Lannister's will not stick their neck out for them(they have their own problems). No Lords of the Vale will give them the time of day either.

They are done, they just don't know it yet.

I agree. I don’t like it but their hopes are few. Too bad. The Freys are cool. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I suspect the song of the Rat Cook begun by Wyman Manderly with the Frey pies will continue to its bitter end. Walder Frey will become the Rat Cook who is cursed to eat his many children. I can see the Riverland Freys, including the "Late Lord Walder," trapped and sealed off in one of their twin towers and left to starve. Cannibalism will be the only option to hang on to life. Walder Frey is described as looking like a vulture in one passage, a carrion bird and he might just end up "feasting" like one. Lady Stoneheart would be my candidate for organising this feast, or maybe Arya, since Catelyn calls for Mercy during the slaughter. 

Back in Winterfell, I think the feast on the dead may play out differently, this one modelled on the story of the brothers Gendel and Gorne. With winter coming down hard on the North, especially around Winterfell, Big Walder (who knows where the entrance to the crypts is) may attempt to lead some Freys and Boltons down through the crypts and into the larger caverns to safety. But like Gendel's children, they will be forever lost in the darkness. And as Ygritte put it "Gendel's children are always hungry."

Edited by Evolett
Small addition
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/1/2022 at 3:22 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The red wedding was a war strategy to get rid of a rebellious lord who got into his head to declare a portion of Westeros as his own kingdom.  It may have saved a lot of loyalists' lives.  Many more lives on both sides would have been lost if they had fought a traditional battle. 

Thousands of people lost their lives at the Red Wedding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...