Wouter Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, Gorn said: Reminds me of something that happened in my country in WWII, destruction of 500th SS Parachute Battalion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rösselsprung_(1944) Yes, and one of the aims of the Russian operations was probably to quickly capture/kill Zelensky and/or other Ukrainan civil or military officials. But it seems a very risky operation, Russians certainly lost some helicopters and their paras probably aren't having a good time either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, Zorral said: Has anyone seen anything about casualties? BBC News has this quote: "Ukrainian officials say 57 of their citizens have been killed and 169 wounded" Sadly I suspect that's likely to end up being an under-estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 15 minutes ago, Zorral said: The Russian war protestors are, you all have said, very brave. Has anyone seen anything about casualties? Some Ukraine officials have claimed there's been 350 Russian causalities. That seems unrealistically high to me. But, if true, this first day has likely gone far worse than Putin expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Well, glad Putin's superyacht is safe. From Feb. 9: Putin's superyacht is spotted 'fleeing' from German shipyard to avoid being impounded' by sanctions if Moscow invades Ukraine https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10494251/Putins-superyacht-spotted-sailing-Russia-fleeing-German-shipyard.html What is it with a******* and their boats?! (Musk, Mansion...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Northman Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Oh, fucking hell This needs to end fast... Hopefully, with as few civilian casualties as possible. (not that I expect it, sadly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Fez said: Some Ukraine officials have claimed there's been 350 Russian causalities. That seems unrealistically high to me. But, if true, this first day has likely gone far worse than Putin expected. (military) Losses seem to be high on both sides. Quite some pics/videos of destroyed/abandoned military hardware floating around, including even a Russian SA-15 "TOR" short range air defence system. The para-assault must have cost the Russians quite some casualties, as well as the downing of some helis, at least one jet (Ukraine claims 7) and a transport plan that was flying in Russia (the latter possibly shot down by a long-range SAM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Yeah, the general assessment seems mixed. On the one hand, the Ukrainians have definitely stood and fought, and inflicted some serious losses on the invaders. So the Russian best-case scenario, a Ukrainian army that mostly fled and did not stand and fight, with minimal losses on both sides, has definitely been thwarted, as has the hope that they could eliminate the Ukrainian forces quickly through air power and cruise missiles. In fact, Russia both did not give air power enough of a chance by itself, and its cruise missile accuracy seems to be a bit iffy. Just flat-out missing the Ukrainian defence intelligence building feels a bit inept, that's a big structure. That said, it's probably also a long way off Russia's worst-case scenario, where Ukraine was able to make better use of AT and AA to inflict more serious losses on their forces and where Ukrainian ad hoc militia fought them every step of the way. The real test may be ahead. There was no way Ukraine was going to win on the battlefield, and Ukrainian forces actually seem to be making good judgements on when to withdraw, when to counter-attack and when to stand their ground (based on limited reports so far). When Russians get to the cities, that'll be the real test. The real nightmares the older Russian officers will be having will be of Grozny (although the Chechens had certain advantages of terrain that Ukraine is less blessed with). If Ukrainian regular and irregular forces make a street-to-street, building-to-building fight of it, that will turn into a bloodbath (for both sides). If Russia starts all-out flattening cities - especially Kyiv, one of the mother cities of Greater Russia - expect to see the protests in Russian cities go through the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, Wouter said: The para-assault must have cost the Russians quite some casualties, as well as the downing of some helis, From what some people at school were saying, Ukraine has been preparing for this since 2014. They weren't surprised and have made structural organizational strategies for Russian invasion, as well as doing their best to get armed. Others said they have Russian friends who left Russia to get out of military service, which has dreadful morale. But as I'm not one of the newly minted experts on Ukraine we see in all the media outlets, I don't know. I hope they are prepared in that matter -- I do know that the old, Fidel Cuba, was structurally and militarily prepared for invasion. What I wish is the the foxnewstrumpistas would shut the eff up about great this is -- and doing in all over the country and the world. Tucker Carlson is shown all over Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Biden’s Ukraine Plans Face Wall Street Roadblock Corporate lobbyists thwarted measures that could strengthen sanctions against the Putin regime — and they were lobbying as the threat of war intensified. In response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, President Joe Biden is expected to soon announce more sanctions aimed at Vladimir Putin and his cadre of oligarchs. The theory is that unlike sectoral sanctions that could harm the broader Russian population, inflicting financial pain on Putin and his wealthy cronies could force the Russian government to the negotiating table. (...) Biden faces a significant obstacle: corporate lobbyists’ success in shrouding the American finance industry in secrecy, which makes it far easier for Russian oligarchs and their business empires to evade economic sanctions. The situation spotlights how America’s money-drenched political process can create national security challenges. In effect, Wall Street’s overwhelming power to shape U.S. regulatory policy — fueled by massive campaign contributions and an army of lobbyists — may defang some of the White House’s most potent economic weapons against an international adversary. (...) https://www.dailyposter.com/bidens-ukraine-plans-face-wall-street-roadblock/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunland Lord Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 The vaccination rate in Ukraine is really low. This is very bad thing to carry into a war; as the war will tighten people together in small spaces and there's shortage of medication and there's COVID, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Zorral said: What I wish is the the foxnewstrumpistas would shut the eff up about great this is -- and doing in all over the country and the world. Tucker Carlson is shown all over Russia. Putin will resign and surrender to the international court in The Hague before this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Trump and his media enablers' reaction was entirely predictable. Obviously it's not a good look to the Ukrainian and Russian people, or the rest of the world for that matter, but what else is new. I don't see why it matters or why anyone should worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 15 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: Putin will resign and surrender to the international court in The Hague before this happens. If this ends up causing a serious split between Viktor Orban and Putin, I wonder how Carlson/Bannon/etc. will react; since they seem to hero worship both of them. I'm no Hungry expert, but from what I can tell Orban seems to be trying to walk a very fine line right now. Which is itself pretty noteworthy since he's usually extremely friendly with Putin. And I'm not sure how long he'll be able to keep that balancing act up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Fez said: If this ends up causing a serious split between Viktor Orban and Putin, I wonder how Carlson/Bannon/etc. will react; since they seem to hero worship both of them. Oh,they'll pick Putin- he's stronger, or at least has charge of a stronger nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 20 minutes ago, Fez said: I'm no Hungry expert, ...but a Hungry Hippo with some insights. (I know childish joke about a silly typo, but a horse has to laugh in these times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Not following this as closely as a I should, but over the past couple years I have come across articles and comments that make me wonder just how secure Putin's grip on power really is. To me, get right down to it, the 'Putin Model' is ultimately dangerously unstable. likely to result in a sort of echo or repeat of the demonstrations that brought down the old east block. Patterns of Dissent in Russia’s Regions | Center for Strategic and International Studies (csis.org) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Paywalled, so no link, but the claim via Bloomberg is that the Ukrainian invasion basically collapsed the Russian stock market - third worst in history. Might bite some of the oligarchs very, very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, Fez said: I wonder how Carlson/Bannon/etc. will react; since they seem to hero worship both of them. Roger Stone, who has been past his phrenology bumps in all this Ukrainian and Putin business all along, as well as assisting the relationship made in heaven for shoggoth with Putin, and whom shoggoth pardoned, has been seen dancing all over Mar-a-Lago yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Lord Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Soldiers way braver than I could ever hope to be. They all died, despite the bravery. If you don't want to click over... Russians: This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you’ll be bombed. Ukrainians: Russian warship, go fuck yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, ThinkerX said: Might bite some of the oligarchs very, very hard. They've stashed it in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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