[Spoilers] Episode 102 Discussion

[C.T. Phipps]

9 minutes ago, Ran said:

I actually have not seen either, bit too action-y for me, but I'm thinking of giving his show Colony a go in my copious spare time.

Colony kind of had the opposite problem of House of the Dragon in that it had a lot of great character moments but didn't seem to move forward.

[Daeron the Daring]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I very much enjoyed the sept scene with Alicent and Rhaenyra ... but they kind of dropped the ball by making these two only hang out alone together. Rhaenyra should a coterie of companions about her, and we should see them. The book mentions that she had two Strong girls as companions for a time, and it could have helped if the princess was not just only with Hand's daughter but if they were actually joined by the children (especially the daughters) of other council members.

We could see, say, Beesbury's granddaughter, a daughter of Lord Lyonel, and, of course, Laena spending some time with them.

And thinking about Otto's late wife, I think it could have worked pretty well if she had been a daughter of Lord Lyman Beesbury. Not only would this add another ugly spin on the later murder, but with the Beesbury's being Hightower bannermen such a match would actually make sense.

I would say making Laena be there doesn't really add up (then why isn't Laenor at court as well?), but having other girls around the two? Maybe.

But. You have to get to the beginning of the Dance itself by the end of the season. Getting a bunch of highborn ladies around the girls may have worked out if the showrunners were to give 2 seasons to the pre-Dance era. This way, they are just there to say a few words in the first (maybe) four epsiodes, and off they go getting married as well, most probably not living at court.

The thing is, Margaery (and Olenna) had other girls in the show. They were far less important than they are in the books but still. And it worked just fine for Margaery, who was at court for 3 long years, through 3 seasons. 

I imagine they could've shown that there are other maidens inside the Red Keep beside Rhaenyra and Alicent, but then again, they would be good for 2 scenes, and you'd be asking where did they go.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

19 minutes ago, Ran said:

I can't speak to Condal's script on Rampage, but the way he's spoken of Hercules on his podcast, it sounds like the filmed script wasn't all that much like what he submitted. He was basically shoved out the door after they bought the script, and it looks like the producer decided 

That said, both of those films are basically streets ahead of anything Skip Wood has put his hands on, looking at RT.

I actually have not seen either, bit too action-y for me, but I'm thinking of giving his show Colony a go in my copious spare time.

I'm now mostly bummed that Dwayne Johnson wasn't cast in HotD.  Would have loved seeing him as one of the Small Council members.

[Ran]

There will be a gaggle of noble ladies in the next episode, FWIW.

[Daeron the Daring]

9 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm now mostly bummed that Dwayne Johnson wasn't cast in HotD.  Would have loved seeing him as one of the Small Council members.

John Cena as Harwin Strong. You never know.

Edit: Even better. They should've casted Vin Diesel as Viserys. He would make a speech about family and be like: "Dance of Dragons what?" 

Jaehaerys who? Meet Vinserys Diesel, First of his Name, the actual Conciliator. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Daeron the Daring

[The hairy bear]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I'm sure you meant Laenor there ;-).

Sure! Thanks for the correction. The different canons are starting to mess up my head.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think the maesters would have had any reason to lie there

Consider this quote from FIB: And yet it was to Archmaester Vaegon that the Old King turned now, summoning his last son to King’s Landing. (...) Reports had reached the court that Corlys Velaryon was massing ships and men on Driftmark to “defend the rights” of his son, Laenor, whilst Daemon Targaryen, a hot-tempered and quarrelsome young man of twenty, had gathered his own band of sworn swords in support of his brother, Viserys. A violent struggle for succession was likely no matter who the Old King named to succeed him.

The theory is that if it had really been close to a 50/50 situation, and given the Velaryon faction had more wealth, more and bigger dragons, and the support of at least three Great Lords (Baratheon, Arryn and Stark), they may feel that once the Old King died they could have chances to seize the throne by force. They could believe that a "democratic" assembly where the vote of a petty lord weighs the same as the vote of a great one has no legitimacy anyway. By spreading the rumor that there had been a 20 to 1 defeat, Vaegon would convince Corlys and Rhaenys that their cause was hopeless and prevent any second thought.

[Lord Varys]

24 minutes ago, Ran said:

There will be a gaggle of noble ladies in the next episode, FWIW.

But that's the big hunting scenario, no? Rhaenyra/Alicent appear as if they are the only highborn ladies at court ... and that just can't be the case. Not saying they should have been other important characters, it would have been just good to see them going about with more ladies, and then a private scene starts.

17 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

The theory is that if it had really been close to a 50/50 situation, and given the Velaryon faction had more wealth, more and bigger dragons, and the support of at least three Great Lords (Baratheon, Arryn and Stark), they may feel that once the Old King died they could have chances to seize the throne by force. They could believe that a "democratic" assembly where the vote of a petty lord weighs the same as the vote of a great one has no legitimacy anyway. By spreading the rumor that there had been a 20 to 1 defeat, Vaegon would convince Corlys and Rhaenys that their cause was hopeless and prevent any second thought.

The Arryns didn't support the Velaryons.

I could see something like that happening if we assume that the Velaryons had more support. But I doubt this was the case ... although not because of Laenor being a scion through the female line but more because of his age and the prospect of a regency government. Things could have gotten pretty unstable, especially if Rhaenys had ruled in her son's name as Princess Regent ... if she had grown accustomed to ruling may she have decided to crown herself queen, after all, considering her son's claim would have derived from her own?

Viserys was just the safer ticket. And the heir of the last named heir of the Old King.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I’m looking forward to seeing what happens with Rhaenyra and Criston (and then Harwin), so the next few episodes should be fun. I’m kind of dreading RhaenyraxDaemon though. Daemon just isn’t vibing with me.

I’m sure their replacements are great, but it will be a shame to see young Rhaenyra and Alicent go.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m sure their replacements are great, but it will be a shame to see young Rhaenyra and Alicent go.

Definitely. As strange as it sounds, the adult actors have some pretty big shoes to fill.

[zajaz]

17 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m looking forward to seeing what happens with Rhaenyra and Criston (and then Harwin), so the next few episodes should be fun. I’m kind of dreading RhaenyraxDaemon though. Daemon just isn’t vibing with me.

I wonder how much (if any) they'll whitewash Criston Cole's unhealthy response to the affair, and Rhaenyra and Daemon's authoritarian gaslighting concerning the truth about Harwin's kids.

Edited August 30, 2022 by zajaz

[The Bard of Banefort]

The showrunners apparently hate flashbacks, which is a shame since we’ll be skipping over quite a bit during the time gap.

Edited August 30, 2022 by The Bard of Banefort

[zajaz]

5 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The showrunners apparently hate flashbacks, which is a shame since we’ll be skipping over quite a bit during the time gap.

Although apparently flashforwards are fine by them...

[frenin]

7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Viserys mentioned that Rhaenyra is 15 in this week’s episode, and there’s been nothing suggesting that they aren’t the same age.

There's nothing suggesting that they are tho. I mean they can certainly be but 15-18 is not an age where noticeable changes happen.

I'm just hopeful that it's not as gross.

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm now mostly bummed that Dwayne Johnson wasn't cast in HotD.  Would have loved seeing him as one of the Small Council members.

Would his family be in charge of Casterly ROCK?   

[EggBlue]

on a second watch , I find it more unnecessary  to age down Laena and use a child actress . although Viserys complained about Laena's age here and there , there were more reasons for him to turn down the match. and the whole Viserys's issue with ages will go down the toilet when he potentially considers Aegon for Rhaenyra. in the end of the day , he mostly wanted to show Corlys who's the boss . it honestly seemed to me that he was frustrated by Corlys's proud . not to mention , this version downplayed the oddity of him choosing Alicent instead of other candidates . if their problem was that Viserys could not possibly turn down Vhaegar's rider , well, then they could have Laena claim her dragon at the age of 16-17. 

P.S.I hope they do justice by Laena/Daemon relationship . although I don't know how they're gonna do that considering that in the next episode she just turns 15! and yes, I favor "singer" version of the story there!

Edited August 30, 2022 by EggBlue

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Would his family be in charge of Casterly ROCK?   

Come to think of it, I'd like him to play Otto's other son, Dwayne Hightower.

[dbunting]

So far I think I am enjoying this as much as I did the first season of GOT. I watched S1 unspoiled and then read all the books that were available before S2 came out, including Dunk and Egg, and I have to say it changed things a bit. I had my perception of characters and how I thought the story should go from S2 on. 

I do own the book this is based on (beautiful illustrations) but never actually fully read it yet, but do know the back story. I think I'll stay unspoiled and just enjoy the journey.

[C.T. Phipps]

1 hour ago, zajaz said:

I wonder how much (if any) they'll whitewash Criston Cole's unhealthy response to the affair, and Rhaenyra and Daemon's authoritarian gaslighting concerning the truth about Harwin's kids.

Speaking from a modern perspective, I have absolutely no moral objections to what they did.

[Lord Varys]

What do you make of Rhaenys' mockery of Rhaenyra's job as cupbearer?

I found that a little bit uncalled for. I think we should have had a pre-investiture scene where she tries to contribute something, with the lords then being confused. But to have the Heir Apparent offering an opinion being weird is something that actually doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think it would have showed some progression if she had had a seat at the council table six months after being named heir, possibly filling Daemon's empty seat at the king's side, opposite to Otto.

Also, I think, it could have been great to have little scenes with Viserys and Rhaenyra where he asked her about what happened at council, what she thought of the contributions of this or that lord. The point of her being there to observe only makes sense if she has a direct link to her father to talk about the whole thing in private.

Having more scenes with Rhaenys could also have been used to have her talk about her own youth, and how her father and Jaehaerys treated her before Aemon's death. Was she ever groomed to rule by them? Did Aemon take her to the Small Council session while he was Master of Laws under the Old King? Did Alysanne take Rhaenys under her wing? The show could have elaborate somewhat on that.

A big letdown in FaB is that Aemon/Jocelyn are not really developed. One would have imagined that Alysanne prepared her half-sister for her future role as queen. If so, did young Rhaenys accompany Alysanne and Jocelyn on various progresses? Did she attend any of the women courts? Did she preside over some in Alysanne's old age?

[frenin]

34 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

on a second watch , I find it more unnecessary  to age down Laena and use a child actress . although Viserys complained about Laena's age here and there , there were more reasons for him to turn down the match. and the whole Viserys's issue with ages will go down the toilet when he potentially considers Aegon for Rhaenyra. in the end of the day , he mostly wanted to show Corlys who's the boss . it honestly seemed to me that he was frustrated by Corlys's proud . not to mention , this version downplayed the oddity of him choosing Alicent instead of other candidates . if their problem was that Viserys could not possibly turn down Vhaegar's rider , well, then they could have Laena claim her dragon at the age of 16-17. 

P.S.I hope they do justice by Laena/Daemon relationship . although I don't know how they're gonna do that considering that in the next episode she just turns 15! and yes, I favor "singer" version of the story there!

Tbf book Viserys didn't find appealing marrying a 12-13 yo Laena either and just noped out of that. If you add the fact that he just hates the fact that Corlys believes himself his equal.