Star Wars - Andor Spoilers (And Scot's Old Ass TV)

[Ran]

13 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I believe I’m #420

420 you say? I did not know that about you, Scot! 

What a great bloody show. Syril and his mother was perfect. Her kitchen is perfect -- everything is so retro-70s.

The last line was perfect. Discovering Vel is actually Mon Mothma's cousin was an interesting and appealing turn -- I liked the idea that she was Luthen's daughter, but this works just as well, that she and Mon have basically gone into the rebellion together but with very different roles. 

And this episode, moreso than any other, emphasizes what Denise Gough was saying about her character: Lt. Meero is a fascist, through and through. Using the dying screams of an alien race that the Empire wiped out in a horrific genocide as a torture device is just evil.

 

 

 

[karaddin]

I think I was around for a while on the EZBoard, I want to say at least a year but it's so long ago now I can't remember how long it was running before the move. I was primarily a lurker until well after the move here, but I did snag a nice early membership number  

Even if I technically joined before Scot I'd say he was "participating" before me. Now the old WoT Usenet is a different story, I was participating in that from my old free midnight to 8am dial up connection back in 2000 lol.

[karaddin]

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

The last line was perfect. 

...

Using the dying screams of an alien race that the Empire wiped out in a horrific genocide as a torture device is just evil.

Bolded - Yeah that's what knocked it out of the park for me as well. The arc of him being convinced to go along with Cassian was done perfectly and that final delivery from both of them justified investing the time here.

On the second part I was thinking of that comment from her while watching. They really want to hammer it home that fascists are fascists and no internal justification actually justifies what they are.

[Ran]

So, decided to rewatch the last bit of the episode, and I admit I'm not sure I fully understand what happened at the prison to cause the trouble.

We're told the prison made a mistake, that someone who was released from level 4 ended up in level 2 the next day. Word got out, trouble started, and they fried a whole unit. The take away from this is that ever since the PORD was passed, the Empire has decided that its prison laborers will never see freedom again. But... what exactly were they supposed to do with the guy, then? Were they secretly executing people who had their time up, and through some foul-up this guy ended up in the wrong place? Or is it that one of the prison factories (there are multiple, as we saw when Andor's transport came down) has only people who "did" their time, and is thus probably way more strict and unpleasant to keep them all in line?

ETA: Also, I did not realize Melshi was in R1. That is cool. 

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

So, decided to rewatch the last bit of the episode, and I admit I'm not sure I fully understand what happened at the prison to cause the trouble.

We're told the prison made a mistake, that someone who was released from level 4 ended up in level 2 the next day. Word got out, trouble started, and they fried a whole unit. The take away from this is that ever since the PORD was passed, the Empire has decided that its prison laborers will never see freedom again. But... what exactly were they supposed to do with the guy, then? Were they secretly executing people who had their time up, and through some follow-up this guy ended up in the wrong place? Or is it that one of the prison factories (there are multiple, as we saw when Andor's transport came down) has only people who "did" their time, and is thus probably way more strict and unpleasant to keep them all in line?

ETA: Also, I did not realize Melshi was in R1. That is cool. 

My first thought was it was more the second, that they probably just rotate prisoners and they never get out. Seems a waste to constantly murder your workforce.

[Ran]

9 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

My first thought was it was more the second, that they probably just rotate prisoners and they never get out. Seems a waste to constantly murder your workforce.

Yeah, that makes the most sense as well. I guess they just have a much harsher routine on the other prison factories, to deal with the fact that people won't have the carrot of freedom dangled in front of them.

[Myrddin]

Any idea what vehicle the part they are making goes too? Like a brace on a TIE or something. I feel like I should know it...

[Kalbear]

5 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Any idea what vehicle the part they are making goes too? Like a brace on a TIE or something. I feel like I should know it...

I liked the explanation that they are making nothing. Like they're doing this work and then the next floor down has the job of disassembling these things as fast as possible. This is all just a sbitty means of control. 

[Myrddin]

4 minutes ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

I liked the explanation that they are making nothing. Like they're doing this work and then the next floor down has the job of disassembling these things as fast as possible. This is all just a sbitty means of control. 

Given the amount of military hardware the Empire needs to maintain order, it makes more sense that they're actively recruiting a workforce to help build the Death Star or something.

Andor's "offense" was a 6 month sentence that got increased to 6 years under new legislation. Sounds like a way to ramp up the means of production. The efficiency of imperial bureaucracy at work.

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Given the amount of military hardware the Empire needs to maintain order, it makes more sense that they're actively recruiting a workforce to help build the Death Star or something.

Andor's "offense" was a 6 month sentence that got increased to 6 years under new legislation. Sounds like a way to ramp up the means of production. The efficiency of imperial bureaucracy at work.

It would be quite ironic if Andor was building the Death Star 

[Mindwalker]

Well, that was intense. And very, very good.

I hated the idea that Vel was Luthen's daughter, so I'm fine with her being Mon's cousin.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

40 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Well, that was intense. And very, very good.

I hated the idea that Vel was Luthen's daughter, so I'm fine with her being Mon's cousin.

How is being Mon Mothma’s cousin significantly different from being Luthen’s Daughter?

Isn’t this the first episode that Luthen doesn’t appear at all?

[Leofric]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

How is being Mon Mothma’s cousin significantly different from being Luthen’s Daughter?

Isn’t this the first episode that Luthen doesn’t appear at all?

I think it's not so much about Vel's background as it is Luthen's.  If Vel is Luthen's daughter, then Luthen is tied into a role, he is some rich guy trying to do good, a friend of Mon Mothma's playing at rebellion.  But now that Vel is part of Mon Mothma's circle rather than Luthen's, then Luthen is once again a complete enigma.  His antique dealer is already shown to be a persona, a cover, he inhabits to allow him to meet with Mon Mothma and explain his travels off world as trips to restock his shop, but who he really is and where he comes from is completely unknown.

[Kalbear]

It also changes the dynamic considerably; Luthen has recruited the Mothmas - one for love, one for duty - but both are beholden to him and are his contacts and not the other way around. Luthen becomes a significantly more compelling and interesting source here in this way. 

Unrelated to the above convo it is a massive jarring mental switch to go from the competence and rigorousness of the Empire in Andor to the absurd bungling stupidity in Obi-Wan. The amount of difficulty that Andor that the rebellion has in order to do anything at all and the ability for the Empire to crack it (mostly) is like a completely different universe. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

15 minutes ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

Unrelated to the above convo it is a massive jarring mental switch to go from the competence and rigorousness of the Empire in Andor to the absurd bungling stupidity in Obi-Wan. The amount of difficulty that Andor that the rebellion has in order to do anything at all and the ability for the Empire to crack it (mostly) is like a completely different universe. 

But Obi-wan hid Leia under his coat… who would… ever… notice that.

[sifth]

A little mixed on how I feel about this one. It was still a good episode, but I had a really hard time understand the prison plot.

[Ran]

13 minutes ago, sifth said:

A little mixed on how I feel about this one. It was still a good episode, but I had a really hard time understand the prison plot.

Time has passed, Andor has found others who are interested in breaking out and are working with him to do so, is already conducting actions towards that end, but Kino remains completely resistant to assisting until the death of Ulaf and the news that in fact they are slaves for life and will never be set free.

@Kalnestk Oblast

Competent and competent. We're told right off that they're incompetent enough that if you look like you belong, no one takes a second look, and we've met some buffoonish Imperials.

But the ISB at the time of Andor is a different beast, yes. Which makes me suppose that between the present and A New Hope that there'll be a massive Soviet-style purge of the ISB. 

[Heartofice]

10 minutes ago, sifth said:

A little mixed on how I feel about this one. It was still a good episode, but I had a really hard time understand the prison plot.

What is there to understand?

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

@Kalnestk Oblast

Competent and competent. We're told right off that they're incompetent enough that if you look like you belong, no one takes a second look, and we've met some buffoonish Imperials.

But the ISB at the time of Andor is a different beast, yes. Which makes me suppose that between the present and A New Hope that there'll be a massive Soviety-style purge of the ISB. 

I didn't think that the ISB at the time of Andor was particularly different to the one of Obi-Wan. Heck, isn't Andor set after Obi-Wan? Like, 10 bby vs 5 bby? 

As to competence vs competence - while it's reasonable to have the whole 'walk in and no one questions it' thing going on, you also have the imperials standing outside a door trying to get to the rebels, or them unable to go around a fire, or be able to have multiple ships track other ships. You have absolutely no one caring about the other rebels anywhere else. Imperial officers can just apparently skip town for months at a time to do..whatever...and then show up unannounced at the most secure location in the galaxy with someone with absolutely no ID and it's totes fine. There aren't even TIE fighters guarding the place; apparently they were too busy guarding a random dam somewhere off in the boonies. 

The difference is that with Obi-Wan they have to bluff, like, once and that's that. With Andor they have to actually act like troops, look like troops (so they shaved), and respond appropriately to bluff instead of looking like...well, whatever Obi-Wan looked like. AND they have to disable comms, AND they have to take a specific person hostage who has access, AND they have to time an escape to a narrow launch window to avoid pursuit. And even then what happens is that the Empire actually succeeds in tracking down a whole lot of the people who might be involved in some way. 

[RumHam]

They've got to be working on Death Star parts. What else would have a comparable impact? I hope to see Krennic checking up on the work soon. 

Does anyone know a good current Star Wars timeline? the era between the prequels and original trilogy does get confusing. I think there are five shows so far at least partially set during that time. Plus comics and books that seem to be canon until they're contradicted by something on screen.