polishgenius Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 3 hours ago, KingAerys_II said: Tolkien fandom wants to see a Lotr tv series , not American politics You're the one bringing American politics into it. Corvinus85, IlyaP and Ser Scot A Ellison 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 7 hours ago, KingAerys_II said: Tolkien fandom wants to see a Lotr tv series , not American politics What 'American' politics are you referring to? IlyaP and Ser Scot A Ellison 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 On 1/27/2024 at 8:25 PM, Argonath Diver said: Now there's a money-maker! A MAGA-infused LOTR production! Denethor is a righteous, bad-ass leader of Men and his two brave and stalwart sons drain the Middle Earth swamp of the pansy, feminine elves, pathetic thieving halflings and hobbits, and smarmy, job-stealing dwarves. Total babes like Arwen and Eowyn know when to step back and support their men, and Saruman raises a sexy tower of willing sex-slave (and super hot) orc chicks. Righteous Exterminator Gandalf uses the eagles to magick-bomb the absolute shit out of Mordor, land of hippies, homos and Hollywood hacks led by the vile Obamauron and his contemptuous pinko ring-wraiths. The final shot is the unveiling of the new flag of Minas Tirith, which is just the American flag with Anduril emblazoned over the stars-and-stripes, triumphantly raised over a crowd of adoring all-white men and various nubile, supplicant hotties. I don't care about American politics , I don't care about US in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 20 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: I don't care about American politics , You clearly care very deeply about American politics, since you won't shut up about them. Not fooling anyone. IlyaP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argonath Diver Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Imagine the deepest, aged, scornful face I can give my computer screen. "Yeeesh." My apologies for the de-rail, friends. Can't we all just be friends? And agree that the Rings of Power series is woefully bad, no matter what angle we might base our distaste from? Politics or no I'm just still pissed she jumped off a boat 3000 leagues out, and also Sauron had planned for that and was right there! Gods above the stupidest damn scene I've ever watched and I'm still mad. Scott_N and Rippounet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 5 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said: Gods above the stupidest damn scene I've ever watched and I'm still mad. **The Dungeons and Dragons direct-to-DVD movie sequels enter the chat.** hauberk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I care so much about American politics because american producers put it in their work, they should not complain when the works are considered low quality stuff by the rest of the world. They change the characters , the plot , then they wonder why most of Tolkien fandom doesn't like RoP , it's a tv series about a fictional world, no one cares about writers and producers ideologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 23 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: I care so much about American politics because american producers put it in their work, they should not complain when the works are considered low quality stuff by the rest of the world. They change the characters , the plot , then they wonder why most of Tolkien fandom doesn't like RoP , it's a tv series about a fictional world, no one cares about writers and producers ideologies That's a dodge. What American politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) Honestly I don't really care about race swapping in something like LOTR. If they want to do it to protect themselves from criticism then fine. I am very far from a lore purist, so to me it doesn't matter. There is an element where you break immersion and fuck with the rules of mythical geography by inserting different skin tones to groups who clearly are from different areas of the world. But whatever. The one area where you could argue that ideology has messed with the show is that Galadriel seems to tick every single modern day 'girlboss' attribute checklist. She's an overpowered arse kicker who is completely insufferable, but the writers didn't seem to notice. Thats a trope that exists with other female characters too, and is so utterly prevalent in the industry right now that I doubt anyone sees the issue. This is a greater problem because it contributed to wrecking one of the main characters the show it built around. But really, the show has far far worse problems than some of it's 'woke' underpinnings, and it's not the reason I didn't enjoy it, I was too bored to worry about it. Edited January 29 by Heartofice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Heartofice said: But really, the show has far far worse problems than some of it's 'woke' underpinnings, and it's not the reason I didn't enjoy it, I was too bored to worry about it. The volcano physics and "creation of Mordor" annoyed many an engineer as it...didn't make any sense. And was a pivotal plot point, that also directly contradicts established history for...uh...an ecology lesson? I think? Also, the Numenorean ships being confusingly tiny and carrying an impossible number of troops. Or the anthropological inconsistencies with the proto-hobbit culture. There are so many more meaningful and interesting problems to note in that show. But like you, I'm not a purist, so I give exactly zero frells about changes in skin color, and roll my eyes at any person for whom that, in 2023/4 is somehow a burning and important/urgent issue. But hey - at least we got a terrific score out of Bear McCreary, so that's a plus! The Entering Numenor track in particular is a godsdamned slamdunk. Edited January 29 by IlyaP Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 The necessity to give to Galadriel an armor and a sword. They have difficulties to portray her as mother and wife, it's difficult to them , they think to make her stronger, but she is actually weaker and frail. In The Hobbit Galadriel helps Gandalf and uses her magic power to banish Sauron and his Nazgul . Celebrimbor is Noldor, so he has black hair and grey eyes , he looks like a televangelist in the tv series, he should have been the main character in the series named "The Rings of Power". Annatar (Sauron) convinced Celebrimbor to create the rings for the purpose to make Middle Earth as beautiful as Valinor , Galadriel is one of the few that never trusted him , the search for Sauron has no sense . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 So, uh, like @Zorral asked, as the above didn't really answer the question several people have now set before you based on the complaint you expressed earlier: "What 'American' politics are you referring to?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 21 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Skin tone isn’t an issue. Story problems, are. This particular complaint reminds me of those angry that Liet-Keynes is female in the 2021 adaptation of Dune. The character’s gender/sex doesn’t change the character’s story a whit and as such is no big deal to me. The same is true for skin tone in RoP. Allowing for dark skinned elves, dwarves, and hobbits changes the character’s not at all. The problematic changes are the time compression and the other bizarre crap. If all the actors are light skinned the problems change… not a whit. Skin tones are definitely nowhere near the top of the list of problems with this show, no argument from me there. Still, if the show creators would pay attention to things like representing Elves properly instead of trying to make Second Age Middle-Earth societies look more like those of western countries of today, they most definitely wouldn't even think of doing the "time compression and the other bizarre crap". It's a symptom, not the root cause of the issue. The hairy bear, Heartofice and Corvinus85 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 11 hours ago, Argonath Diver said: agree that the Rings of Power series is woefully bad, Well, I don't agree that it is woefully bad. There is great deal about it that I liked and enjoyed, and in some cases, even admired. Now if you wrote that about WOT, I would agree! Diversity of taste and critical judgments will exist just as does diversity of skin tones and gender preference, etc., etc. etc. What I don't give a damn about is Tolkien fandom. I'm not a part of it and never have been. I love the books (not The Hobbit though), and have read them hundreds of times. Loremasters and fandom mean nothing to me. This sort of person does exist, much as many seem not to have noticed. Moreover fandoms do not OWN the creative works, just like fandom did not CREATE the work. Edited January 29 by Zorral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) Had to lol at the Tolkien estate’s epic trolling: As RoP season 1 comes out, probably watched mostly by those who’ve not read the books and almost certainly not The Silmarillion - and thus probaly know nothing about the history/lore - the estate releases a book called The Fall of Numenor. If the title was too subtle a spoiler, the cover shows the island being drowned by the sea… Edited January 29 by Derfel Cadarn Corvinus85, Prince of the North, Tongue Stuck to Wall and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) Wrong thread, sorry Edited January 30 by baxus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 The manipulation and intelligence Sauron used to convince the king of Numenor to attack Valinor make him the best villain character ever invented, the fall of Numenor is one of the best part of Tolkien works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said: The manipulation and intelligence Sauron used to convince the king of Numenor to attack Valinor make him the best villain character ever invented, the fall of Numenor is one of the best part of Tolkien works And Sauron did it by seduction… over time… he didn’t cast a spell and make Ar-Pharazon a puppet… he played on Ar-Pharazon’s desire for power and fear of death… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 And he did it while not being disguised as some random nobody. Seriously what was the point of "Halbrand" with ""Annatar apparently being part of season 2? Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 The fall of Numenor is an important event in Middle Earth, Sauron became the priest of an evil cult in Numenor and he convinced the King to gain immortality by attacking Valinor and the Valar accused to be the ones that cursed the Men with death, actually Sauron wanted to get rid of Numenoreans that were too powerful so he would be free to take Middle Earth, then Eru Iluvatar destroyed Numenor. The destruction of Numenor is important, his first king was Elros , Elron brother and son of Earendil , who was the hero that killed Ancalagon the Black during the War of Wrath. After the event, Sauron was no longer able to change his form, he was a skilled shapeshifter who used his fair forms to seduce and deceive elves and men, he was known as Tar Mairon in Numenor and Annatar among the Elves, when Finrod was still alive he was able to turn himself into a werewolf, in fact Sauron generated the werewolves by inserting evil spirits into beasts. Sauron was not able to create stuff, just like his former Master, he was able to corrupt beings , that's why he needed the creativity of Celebrimbor, who was the grandson of Feanor, the most powerful Noldor that ever existed , so "the search for Sauron" has no sense , it's a product conceived by bad weiting and ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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