US Politics: Hell Yes THEY Were Trying to Overthrow the Government

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

Also this might be funny to only me, but Ken White (popehat) finally having to admit that something is, actually RICO after being the person telling everyone for YEARS that 'random crime of blah is not RICO' is really, really funny to me.

 

Popehat, or perhaps tonight he's Rico hat, is the first person I thought of.   

Edited August 15, 2023 by LongRider

[LongRider]

Mark Meadows listed on this indictment, very interesting.   

 

1ccdf52e-1ba2-434c-93f8-2a7020293967.pdf (washingtonpost.com)

[LongRider]

22 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Clark and Eastman are the names that should and have been indicted. Clark worked for the justice department when he participated in this attempt to overthrow the goverment. Eastman cooked up this entire crazy scheme. Those two should rot in jail. Count Senilecula is just bonus.

They are on the indictment, and so is Mark Meadows.   

1ccdf52e-1ba2-434c-93f8-2a7020293967.pdf (washingtonpost.com)

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 minute ago, LongRider said:

They are on the indictment, and so is Mark Meadows.   

1ccdf52e-1ba2-434c-93f8-2a7020293967.pdf (washingtonpost.com)

Didn't I say should have and have been indicted?

[LongRider]

1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Didn't I say should have and have been indicted?

I see it now, sorry just happy to be here.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

In Mother Russia, Horse ride you. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

I think A right wing populist 9/10 will always be a fascist.

[Ran]

Noah Smith had a good discussion about the song's arguments and claims, pointing out that there are truths in there, but the solutions are not necessarily obvious to a right-populist (e.g. Virginia has one of the lowest union affiliation rates in the country, changing that would have a material impact on the shitty wages factory workers get). The comments to the piece provide some interesting additional context regarding the role of Social Security disability  checks in Appalachian communities.

[Varysblackfyre321]

57 minutes ago, Ran said:

Noah Smith had a good discussion about the song's arguments and claims, pointing out that there are truths in there

This response is so…frustrating.
 anti-semites really do just need to occasionally invoke the barest, vaguest, gesture to class conscious rhetoric for many people to immediately pivot towards a conversation what they(the virulent bigot) got right in their obvious tirades dissing non-whites, disabled people and let’s be real most likely Jews.

clarification: I get how it can be important to explain or convince people who liked this song are actually concerned with an economic erosion how Oliver isn’t offering much answers but I think the way to do it needs to come with a come with a repeated point to the immorality of this man’s reactionary mindset. It’s not just a matter of polite disagreement between gentle people. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Ran]

35 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

This response is so…frustrating.

Smith wrote the piece before that viral tweet which seems to be the only type of content you mainline. That said, I doubt it would make any difference to his response, and rightly so. There are plenty of people who are responding to that song as expressing their lived experience who are not fascists or antisemites, and if some imperfect vessel of an artist is the person managing to articulate that, that doesn't make their experiences any less real.

Personally, I am uninterested in discussing the immorality of people with you. It's politics, not religion, not counting up who is the most heretical or based or whatever the fuck counts as discourse for the very online.

The song is fundamentally political, and should be engaged with that way. It represents things Anthony, and many people of his background, experience and then puts forward a view of how they understand those experiences. You can shit on them for being ignorant and write them off as racists and antisemites and ignore the actual underlying problem of material conditions, or you can simply acknowledge that their experiences are real and valid, that there are constructive ways to deal with them, and work at those and hope that the alleviation of their problems will make them less given to conspiratorial twaddle.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ran

[Mindwalker]

5 hours ago, Zorral said:

Lindsey Graham not among g the names. Which indicates he may have flipped.

Lord essays this is BIG. (NOT bigly,)

Idk, this serial turncoat's testimony is worthless to me...

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Smith wrote the piece before that viral tweet which seems to be the only type of content you mainline.

 Even without the context of the tweet still bad. 
 

1 hour ago, Ran said:

That said, I doubt it would make any difference to his response, and rightly so.

Possibly not, though it’d be much worse.

1 hour ago, Ran said:

There are plenty of people who are responding to that song as expressing their lived experience who are not fascists or antisemites,

True, which is why fascists and anti-semites use economic populist rhetoric.

I’m fine with trying to reach those people in certain ways—so long as the attempt doesn’t implicitly or intentionally sanitize the far right activist braying about welfare queens, fat people, cancel-culture and throwing out qanon-bait.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ran said:

and if some imperfect vessel of an artist is the person managing to articulate that, that doesn't make their experiences any less real.

I genuinely didn’t mean to imply it did.

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Personally, I am uninterested in discussing the immorality of people with you. It's politics, not religion

Oh, forgive me but that’s a really silly and dangerous line to say. I hope you’d give more clarification to your views. Politics isn’t some benign hobby like liking football. If a person holistically pushes for America to become an autocratic white-ethnostate that kills sexual minorities and suppresses women like say Matt Walsh do you think it’s wrong of me to say that person is bad? 
 

1 hour ago, Ran said:

not counting up who is the most heretical or based or whatever the fuck counts as discourse for the very online.

It’s dangerous to remove a care for morality in politics. Especially for a democracy where an informed, invested, electorate is expected to hold everything together.

Otherwise you get apathy towards really bad actors and get people to view politics as team sports(both sides same why do boring thing) 

1 hour ago, Ran said:

The song is fundamentally political, and should be engaged with that way

If not a question of morality is the purpose of engagement just an intellectual itch? 

1 hour ago, Ran said:

It represents things Anthony, and many people of his background, experience and then puts forward a view of how they understand those experiences.

Eh.

1 hour ago, Ran said:

You can shit on them for being ignorant

Him. Please don’t me equate asking for people when addressing him to shit on him appropriately for his reactionary views with shitting on everyone who liked his music.

 

edit: also not shitting on him for being ignorant but the reactionary stuff. I’ll be the first one to say a person can fully understand the inevitable negative consequences pursuing an ideology I disdain and still be fairly intelligent. 

1 hour ago, Ran said:

and ignore the actual underlying problem of material conditions

I explicitly state how it’s important to try and reach out to the people who resonated with the song due to concerns over economic erosion. Though I admit that I was wrong to use that phrase. Perhaps economic hardships or troubles.

1 hour ago, Ran said:

that there are constructive ways to deal with them,

True. You don’t have to coddle far-right activists like smith did.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Varysblackfyre321]

Because they hate the idea of women having a choice.

It’s not more complicated.

[Gaston de Foix]

6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've mentioned this before, my father was both a law professor and a criminal his entire life. 

Umm, what? I feel like there's a novel in that sentence somewhere.  Please elaborate. 

What types of crimes did he commit and also (a question of more specialized interest, I admit), what branch of law did he teach?

[Mindwalker]

Anyone up for a TFG reaction Bingo card?

Witch hunt

racism

Fani bad (& racist)

perfect phone call

election interference

leading in the polls

crooked Biden

Hunter Biden

threats against prosecutors, witnesses etc

Hmmm, did I miss anything?

 

How about this as a thread title: I'm so indicted and I just can't hide it! I'm about to ...

Edited August 15, 2023 by Mindwalker

[Varysblackfyre321]

4 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Anyone up for a TFG reaction Bingo card?

Witch hunt

racism

Fani bad (& racist)

perfect phone call

election interference

leading in the polls

crooked Biden

Hunter Biden

threats against prosecutors, witnesses etc

Hmmm, did I miss anything?

 

Butter mails.

Also the black prosecutor is secretly a man.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[maarsen]

4 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Anyone up for a TFG reaction Bingo card?

Witch hunt

racism

Fani bad (& racist)

perfect phone call

election interference

Biden

Hunter Biden

threats against prosecutors, witnesses etc

Hmmm, did I miss anything?

 

Hillary's emails.

[Varysblackfyre321]

11 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Hillary's emails.

Butter males!

 

[Week]

9 hours ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

Surely this will be the indictment that really matters

Today was the day that Donald Trump finally became president.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 hours ago, Ran said:

Smith wrote the piece before that viral tweet which seems to be the only type of content you mainline. That said, I doubt it would make any difference to his response, and rightly so. There are plenty of people who are responding to that song as expressing their lived experience who are not fascists or antisemites, and if some imperfect vessel of an artist is the person managing to articulate that, that doesn't make their experiences any less real.

Personally, I am uninterested in discussing the immorality of people with you. It's politics, not religion, not counting up who is the most heretical or based or whatever the fuck counts as discourse for the very online.

The song is fundamentally political, and should be engaged with that way. It represents things Anthony, and many people of his background, experience and then puts forward a view of how they understand those experiences. You can shit on them for being ignorant and write them off as racists and antisemites and ignore the actual underlying problem of material conditions, or you can simply acknowledge that their experiences are real and valid, that there are constructive ways to deal with them, and work at those and hope that the alleviation of their problems will make them less given to conspiratorial twaddle.

What song?