Your Unpopular ASOIAF Opinions/Hot Takes

[kissdbyfire]

31 minutes ago, Kienn said:

Ned was still growing during the Tourney at Harrenhal. We know this since Catelyn mentions Ned was shorter at their wedding compared to present day. Their wedding was 1 year after the tourney.

If you actually read the theory your other complaints are addressed.

Ned is really the only candidate at present. Lyanna is possible but would be quite a rugpull as she has no real connection to weirwoods or booming voices. If KotLT is connected to blue roses or Lyanna to laughing weirwoods in TWoW Lyanna will become a good candidate.

I have read it and debated it extensively and I wholeheartedly disagree w/ what you proposed. 

[sweetsunray]

11 hours ago, sifth said:

I honestly think the mystery of the KoLT is hidden in plane sight. I think it's Lyanna as well and that she got her armor from Benjen, like how he offered to give Howland a pair. I think later on, that Benjen realized his actions helped start Robert's Rebellion, and out of guilt, joined the Night's Watch.

Yup and makes most sense in light of Ned's repeated thoughts of Lyanna asking him to promise after he sent Jon to the Wall. If Lyanna was the KotLT, he made a promise to a "tree" (Lyanna). By the time he's inside a black cell he can't keep his promise anymore and knows he broke a vow sworn to a tree.

Edited August 30, 2023 by sweetsunray

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

11 hours ago, Leonardo Abreu said:

He did not simply kill the king, it is mentioned he did after track down and murdered some other pyromancers besides the one whatshisname that was the Hand. As the guild years later claim to Tyrion that they “recently” found the caches, maybe the ones Jaime killed were the only ones that knew the exact locations and did not tell even at swordpoint. Or maybe they told of one or two other caches that Jaime did take care of but just did not think about yet in his POVs.

I was aware of that. But I would like confirmation from Jaime himself because I trust him more.

[Lee-Sensei]

I don't think Asha's a lot smarter than Theon. She makes some of the same mistakes with less excuses. Like sitting around in enemy territory with few men and no chance of reinforcements. She's just a lot more secure and has a stronger sense of identity, because she got to grow up in her homeland surrounded by her friends and family.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:21 AM, James Steller said:

Rhaegar and Lyanna are among the worst people of the entire series, assuming that their disappearance was a consensual elopement and love affair. Brynden Rivers is also a monster but for different reasons. I will think much less of GRRM if he tries to justify or vindicate any of those three for what they did.

It's interesting that Ned seems to think highly of both Lyanna and Rhaegar and doesn't judge either of them for what happened. 

Obviously, GRRM couldn't reveal too much in the first book and we still don't know all the details, but it's curious that Ned doesn't think of Lyanna as a hypocrite for running off with Rhaegar while disliking Robert for his womanising.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[sifth]

11 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

I don't think Asha's a lot smarter than Theon. She makes some of the same mistakes with less excuses. Like sitting around in enemy territory with few men and no chance of reinforcements. She's just a lot more secure and has a stronger sense of identity, because she got to grow up in her homeland surrounded by her friends and family.

She honestly feels like a completely different person in AFFC/ADWD, than she does in ACoK's. She's much more wild, when she's first introduced.

[Odej]

14 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

It's interesting that Ned seems to think highly of both Lyanna and Rhaegar and doesn't judge either of them for what happened. 

Obviously, GRRM couldn't reveal too much in the first book and we still don't know all the details, but it's curious that Ned doesn't think of Lyanna as a hypocrite for running off with Rhaegar while disliking Robert for his womanising.

Thinking badly of others, even when those others have done questionable things, is not a Ned trait (unless that person is Tywin). I believe he sees no point in brooding over grudges against people who are already dead. There isn't a single thought of his about Aerys II, the king who had his father burned and his brother strangled. When he thinks of Rhaegar it's wondering if the prince frequented brothels and what I find curious is that according to Ned this was his first thought about Rhaegar in years. Assuming that Jon is Rhaegar's son and that Ned saw the boy every single day, it was to imagine that his real father came to Ned's mind with some frequency.

[James Steller]

13 minutes ago, Odej said:

Thinking badly of others, even when those others have done questionable things, is not a Ned trait (unless that person is Tywin). I believe he sees no point in brooding over grudges against people who are already dead. There isn't a single thought of his about Aerys II, the king who had his father burned and his brother strangled. When he thinks of Rhaegar it's wondering if the prince frequented brothels and what I find curious is that according to Ned this was his first thought about Rhaegar in years. Assuming that Jon is Rhaegar's son and that Ned saw the boy every single day, it was to imagine that his real father came to Ned's mind with some frequency.

His “real” father is Ned. To hell with biology trumping actual parenting.

But as to your point, yes, it’s really weird how Ned is characterized in regards to that possible twist.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

11 minutes ago, James Steller said:

His “real” father is Ned. To hell with biology trumping actual parenting.

But as to your point, yes, it’s really weird how Ned is characterized in regards to that possible twist.

Ned tends to suppress memories as a coping mechanism. Perhaps in this case he chooses to suppress emotions/judgement as well. I have a hard time accepting that Ned would think highly of Rhaegar. Rhaegar may have been a good and kind man at heart, but he did make foolish decisions that endangered not only Lyanna, but Elia and her children as well. And I'm not placing all the blame on Rhaegar, there was unnecessary violence from other perpetrators once the rebellion went into full force.

But I imagine that Ned suppresses any grudges for the sake of Lyanna and Jon (if Jon is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's son.) Ned knew that eventually he would need to tell Jon of his parentage and it would do no good to paint Rhaegar in a bad light.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Ser Arthurs Dawn

[Odej]

5 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

But I imagine that Ned suppresses any grudges for the sake of Lyanna and Jon (if Jon is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's son.) Ned knew that eventually he would need to tell Jon of his parentage and it would do no good to paint Rhaegar in a bad light.

I don't believe Ned would ever tell Jon the truth about his birth. And as for not wanting to paint Rhaegar in a bad light, that was unnecessary as the official story of the rebellion was that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna. This was common knowledge, Bran tells Osha the story that way so Jon obviously knew too.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

1 minute ago, Odej said:

And as for not wanting to paint Rhaegar in a bad light, that was unnecessary as the official story of the rebellion was that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna. This was common knowledge, Bran tells Osha the story that way so Jon obviously knew too.

Yeah, you're right, that slipped my mind.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 8/24/2023 at 12:05 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Without going into the show with logistics, just look at King's Landing: A city of 500,000 people, which is stretching it by medieval standards (about the size of Constantinople c. 500 C.E.), primarily fed by food from the Reach no less than 500 miles away (Highgarden is 900 miles away), making it a big deal when Renly besieges King's Landing. This would require a rather large bureaucracy to organize, funding, distribution, as well as control over neighboring kingdoms, would it not? 

To be completely fair, "stretching it by medieval standards" was one of the reasons why George started writing ASOIAF in the first place. So, it is what it is.

[Lee-Sensei]

4 hours ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Ned tends to suppress memories as a coping mechanism. Perhaps in this case he chooses to suppress emotions/judgement as well. I have a hard time accepting that Ned would think highly of Rhaegar. Rhaegar may have been a good and kind man at heart, but he did make foolish decisions that endangered not only Lyanna, but Elia and her children as well. And I'm not placing all the blame on Rhaegar, there was unnecessary violence from other perpetrators once the rebellion went into full force.

But I imagine that Ned suppresses any grudges for the sake of Lyanna and Jon (if Jon is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's son.) Ned knew that eventually he would need to tell Jon of his parentage and it would do no good to paint Rhaegar in a bad light.

Did he? The only thing that I can remember that we could say is Ned thinking highly of Rhaegar was that he probably didn't frequent brothels, but Roose probably doesn't either. While Edmure does. I'm not saying that Rhaegar is anywhere near as bad as Roose of course. The point is that I don't think this one line indicates that Ned thinks highly of Rhaegar. He also compares Robert bringing down Rhaegar to bringing down Tywin. And he says that Robert could forgive men as long as they were brave and honest, but what Cersei and Jaime did was "poison in the dark" and "a knife thrust at his very soul". That he couldn't forgive them any more than he forgiven Rhaegar, which would mean that Rhaegar didn't act bravely or honestly. The final thing is that Ned thinks that Brandon was to kind to Littlefinger for letting him live after he interfered in his betrothal. I agree that a big part of it is for Jon's sake. I also think Ned's not the type to brood over peoples misdeeds once they've paid for them.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Lee-Sensei

[kissdbyfire]

5 hours ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Rhaegar may have been a good and kind man at heart, but he did make foolish decisions that endangered not only Lyanna, but Elia and her children as well. And I'm not placing all the blame on Rhaegar, there was unnecessary violence from other perpetrators once the rebellion went into full force.

Did he though? It sure as shit looks that way, but the fact is, we don’t really know. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by kissdbyfire

[Kal-L]

I'll never get the whole Ned think highly of Rhaegar. People are really desperate to pretend Rhaegar's actions were approved by the Starks to the point of grasping at any flimsy part.

Anyway small "hot-take" about Bael the Bard. I don't know how true was Ygritte's tale but taking into account the element of the Wildlings' tale, I was thinking about the idea that his affair with Brandon the daughterless's daughter resulting in a half-wildling bastard son could be what led to the Greystarks's rebellion alongside the Boltons. The Greystarks feeling like they were more legitimate that the official bastard line might have been the reason behind their rebellion alongside the Starks's worst enemies - which we know slained Bael's son -, and the reason why they had to be eradicated (they would always be a danger for the main line).

 

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

I know Winds hasn't come out yet but I'm worried how GRRM will handle the Euron storyline. The whole thing about him committing a massive sacrifice to bring upon the apocalypse came too sudden. it wasn't like the Others where there's been good build-up to it. I would've felt better if the Euron storyline was him simply going to Dany to get her and her dragons. So whatever GRRM is cooking I hope it's good.

[SeanF]

7 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

I know Winds hasn't come out yet but I'm worried how GRRM will handle the Euron storyline. The whole thing about him committing a massive sacrifice to bring upon the apocalypse came too sudden. it wasn't like the Others where there's been good build-up to it. I would've felt better if the Euron storyline was him simply going to Dany to get her and her dragons. So whatever GRRM is cooking I hope it's good.

Euron and Dany will wed, in a ceremony that is celebrated with mass human sacrifice in front of the Others.

Then, they’ll go on the rampage, like Mickey and Mallory, in Natural Born Killers.

[Craving Peaches]

All the 'Who is more evil: X mass murderer or Y mass murderer' threads need to go.

[LongRider]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

Then, they’ll go on the rampage, like Mickey and Mallory, in Natural Born Killers.

Only on dragons!  Bring it on.  

[The Stannis Inquisition]

Hot take: The fact that the series is unlikely to be finished means that it will never truly be possible to definitively shoot down some of the crazier theories that pop up.

This is forever, folks.