Who will rule the North? Sansa, Rickon or Jon?

[Odej]

Sansa

Situation: hidden in Vale as Litterfinger's bastard daughter. Pros: recognized as Robb's heir after the supposed death of Bran and Rickon, a marriage of her to Harry Hardyng would get her the support of the Vale. Cons: she is still married to a Lannister, she is a female.

 

Rickon

Situation: walking around Skagos. Pro: male, supported by the Starks' wealthiest vassals, the Manderlys, who would offer their support to Stannis (who is going to fight against the Boltons for Winterfell) if the boy is found. Cons: too young and probably too wild.

 

Jon.

Situation: apparently dead, but with an almost certain return (whatever that may be). Pro: male and a will from the last king of the North legitimizing him as his heir. Cons: bastard, member of the Night's watch.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

If Rickon survives I feel like he would be one of the more likely candidates. If Robb's will is brought up, do you think it would complicate matters? I imagine that would invite more conflict, not necessarily between the Stark kids, but rather the Northern lords. Does legitimizing Jon and making him an heir actually put him before the trueborn Stark kids? Or would he still technically be further down the line of succession?

Edited September 1, 2023 by Ser Arthurs Dawn

[Arthur Peres]

1 hour ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

If Rickon survives I feel like he would be one of the more likely candidates. If Robb's will is brought up, do you think it would complicate matters? I imagine that would invite more conflict, not necessarily between the Stark kids, but rather the Northern lords. Does legitimizing Jon and making him an heir actually put him before the trueborn Stark kids? Or would he still technically be further down the line of succession?

I don't see Jon usurping his brothers. If worst came to worst, Jon would be like a Artos Stark figure and be a regent.

Unless the whole ressurection chips away some of his virtue and/or incress his desire for Winterfell.

 

[Willam Stark]

Sansa or Rickon at the end of the saga.

Jon in the short term.

[csuszka1948]

I feel you leave out Arya, even though the whole Northern plotline centers around 'Arya' and Lady Stoneheart wants to crown her.

She is one of the 'key five' characters of GRRM that he invented in 1991 and he repeatedly emphasized that he is (roughly) heading towards his 1991 ending. The most logical ending for Arya is ruling Winterfell on her own right.

She is also someone who has sat at her father's table and listened to him dealing with his people and is excellent at running a household. She spent the whole story interacting with and leading various smallfolk and experiencing their trouble, which will help her as a potential future ruler to improve their lives and solve their troubles immensely.

 

Jon will be King of the North for a time but not indefinitely, Sansa is excluded by Robb's will and has her own political arc in the Vale, Bran will be King of the Seven Kingdoms, and I doubt Rickon (even if he survives) would want to rule Winterfell.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by csuszka1948

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Rickon as the official lord, with Jon being the regent and Sansa the one who actually do the political and administrative aspects of the rule for the time being.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9

[The Stannis Inquisition]

I could see all of them ruling the North in some capacity before the story is over, but if any Stark is ruling in Winterfell by the end I think it will be Sansa. I may be letting what I remember of the show's ending influence my thinking, but I think it makes sense for her arc. She goes to Kings Landing as a spoiled girl with decidedly Southron sensibilities, but through various trials and tribulations is rebuilt (reborn? Not sure what word I should use there) into a proper Northern queen. Rickon is basically a non entity at this point. Even if he returns to Winterfell I really doubt that will change; he's just too young to really be anymore than a figurehead. And with his wolf's name being Shaggydog? I will be extremely surprised if he ever does anything that really matters as far as the main plot is concerned. And I just don't see Jon winding up on any throne, at least not for long. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by The Stannis Inquisition

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Arya Stark .

[csuszka1948]

On 9/1/2023 at 4:33 AM, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

If Rickon survives I feel like he would be one of the more likely candidates. If Robb's will is brought up, do you think it would complicate matters? I imagine that would invite more conflict, not necessarily between the Stark kids, but rather the Northern lords. Does legitimizing Jon and making him an heir actually put him before the trueborn Stark kids? Or would he still technically be further down the line of succession?

GRRM once answered to this question and he said there are no clear guidelines, but legitimatization as Stark would (in theory) put him ahead of the younger children of Ned.

 

I think it would be also be an interesting internal conflict for Jon if he accepted the title of King of the North over kneeling to Stannis in Winds, and then he found out the truth about his parentage (but it's not a truth that would be widely believed without Jon riding a dragon) and his siblings started arriving to Winterfell, but by this time it would be too late to unmake his decision.

 

He would become what he tried to avoid all his life: the stereotypical bastard stealing the Stark inheritance, a "dragon in wolf's clothing". I feel this is something GRRM will explore and the reason why he invented Robb's will in the first place.

Edited September 2, 2023 by csuszka1948

[sifth]

If the show can be trusted, it will be Sansa.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:36 PM, Odej said:

Sansa

Situation: hidden in Vale as Litterfinger's bastard daughter. Pros: recognized as Robb's heir after the supposed death of Bran and Rickon, a marriage of her to Harry Hardyng would get her the support of the Vale. Cons: she is still married to a Lannister, she is a female.

 

Rickon

Situation: walking around Skagos. Pro: male, supported by the Starks' wealthiest vassals, the Manderlys, who would offer their support to Stannis (who is going to fight against the Boltons for Winterfell) if the boy is found. Cons: too young and probably too wild.

 

Jon.

Situation: apparently dead, but with an almost certain return (whatever that may be). Pro: male and a will from the last king of the North legitimizing him as his heir. Cons: bastard, member of the Night's watch.

The only realistic choice among the three is Rickon.  And only if the North devolves into a land of cannibalistic savages.  Which Manderly and Bran already are.  Rickon will fit right in.

Jon is a persona non grata anywhere in Westeros.  He betrayed his own order and sent Wildlings to attack the Warden of the North.  Sansa is not leadership material.  She doesn't have the courage nor the brains to govern. 

[Hugorfonics]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:16 AM, csuszka1948 said:

I feel you leave out Arya, even though the whole Northern plotline centers around 'Arya' and Lady Stoneheart wants to crown her.

She is one of the 'key five' characters of GRRM that he invented in 1991 and he repeatedly emphasized that he is (roughly) heading towards his 1991 ending. The most logical ending for Arya is ruling Winterfell on her own right.

She is also someone who has sat at her father's table and listened to him dealing with his people and is excellent at running a household. She spent the whole story interacting with and leading various smallfolk and experiencing their trouble, which will help her as a potential future ruler to improve their lives and solve their troubles immensely.

Agreed! To add a few pros. Currently the Lady of Winterfell decreed by Tommen. Capable of ordering Bolton "allies" as well as Stannis' northern army. Cons. Thats not Arya.
Ok, new list. Pros. Able to Mystique anybody. Capable of skinchanging lucid, can warg across continents. Honestly probably, by far the greatest leader in asoiaf. The loyalty she commands with former enemies like Hotpie and Lommy comes naturally, similarly she refuses to abandon her squad in Harrenhal or on the road once again proving her leadership qualities.
I do still think Sansa has a greater chance on succeeding Robb as well with Jon but I dont think either can do a good of a job as Arya, though I think they both can still be efficient. Bran I think would be too effective reducing the lords to really nothing where Rickon would probably be useless and just a figurehead for Manderly or whatever lord winds up pulling his strings. 
My bet? Tom.

[Lee-Sensei]

I thought it would be Rickon, but the show is making me think that it's going to be Sansa.

@csuszka1948 When did he emphasize that? In any case, Arya doesn't want to get married and that's part of being the head of a family. Producing heirs. Sansa was excluded on the basis of her marriage to Tyrion, so I imagine they'd still consider her. And Rickon's young. Why do you think he'd refuse to be the Lord of Winterfell or the King in the North?

Edited September 4, 2023 by Lee-Sensei

[Hugorfonics]

15 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

I thought it would be Rickon, but the show is making me think that it's going to be Sansa.

@csuszka1948 When did he emphasize that? In any case, Arya doesn't want to get married and that's part of being the head of a family. Producing heirs. Sansa was excluded on the basis of her marriage to Tyrion, so I imagine they'd still consider her. And Rickon's young. Why do you think he'd refuse to be the Lord of Winterfell or the King in the North?

Arya never said she doesn't want to get married, she said she doesn't want to be a stay at home mother and wife but thats different. 

I really don't see Rickon taking it, the theme of succession is so prevalent with Greyjoy, Martell and Lannister while it's true the only Winterfell one who thinks about this stuff is Jon, I do think Stark Succession is and always has been a fairly interesting plot. They can't give it to Rickon, he's like not even a character 

[Angel Eyes]

On 9/2/2023 at 7:15 PM, sifth said:

If the show can be trusted, it will be Sansa.

Plenty here don't trust the show.

 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Arya never said she doesn't want to get married, she said she doesn't want to be a stay at home mother and wife but thats different. 

I really don't see Rickon taking it, the theme of succession is so prevalent with Greyjoy, Martell and Lannister while it's true the only Winterfell one who thinks about this stuff is Jon, I do think Stark Succession is and always has been a fairly interesting plot. They can't give it to Rickon, he's like not even a character 

It would be like Martin to just give the royal authority to a non-character.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

35 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

It would be like Martin to just give the royal authority to a non-character.

For what it's worth, George didn't let D&D write Rickon out of the show completely, because he had "important plans for him". I don't think Rickon will end up ruling the North, but hopefully he'll be more than a non-character when it's all said and done.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[Lee-Sensei]

5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Arya never said she doesn't want to get married, she said she doesn't want to be a stay at home mother and wife but thats different. 

I really don't see Rickon taking it, the theme of succession is so prevalent with Greyjoy, Martell and Lannister while it's true the only Winterfell one who thinks about this stuff is Jon, I do think Stark Succession is and always has been a fairly interesting plot. They can't give it to Rickon, he's like not even a character 

Is it different? Rickon is young and there are still two books to go. I don't see why he can't become a character in that time.

[Hugorfonics]

50 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Is it different? Rickon is young and there are still two books to go. I don't see why he can't become a character in that time.

Yea. Very different.

He can be a character but I doubt he can capture our hearts like Bran Jon and the girls, I'm invested in their story and will continue to be. Rickon on the throne doesn't really finish any arc for me

[Lee-Sensei]

1 minute ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea. Very different.

He can be a character but I doubt he can capture our hearts like Bran Jon and the girls, I'm invested in their story and will continue to be. Rickon on the throne doesn't really finish any arc for me

That was more of a rhetorical question. I don't think it is. In a lot of houses, women do rule to an extent anyways. Arya doesn't seem to want that life, although she might change down the line. Ned captured peoples' hearts and he was in 1 book as an active character. In any case, Rickon surviving to rule Winterfell would be the pack surviving. Their enemies nearly wiped them out, but a child of Ned and Catelyn would continue to rule Winterfell. I don't know that this is going to happen though. The show killed him off, so maybe he's not that important in the last two books.

[Hugorfonics]

18 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

That was more of a rhetorical question. I don't think it is. In a lot of houses, women do rule to an extent anyways. Arya doesn't seem to want that life, although she might change down the line.

Arya is the current lady of Winterfell and a natural leader, there's no reason why she can't be those things and married.

19 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Ned captured peoples' hearts and he was in 1 book as an active character.

But not the same way right? Like I never even like Ned so I'm a bad example but I liked Cat but still liked the kids more. I liked Robb a lot too, but still not to the same degree.

21 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Rickon surviving to rule Winterfell would be the pack surviving. Their enemies nearly wiped them out, but a child of Ned and Catelyn would continue to rule Winterfell.

Why can't that be one of the girls?

21 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

. I don't know that this is going to happen though. The show killed him off, so maybe he's not that important in the last two books.

I'm sure he's important, just like Cat is still important. The show was just dumb and rushed and a money grab at the end