Marvel's Multiverse of Maddening Returns

[Heartofice]

14 minutes ago, sifth said:

I wonder if the script for the Marvels was even finished, when filming started. James Gunn has mentioned this has been a big problem for MCU movies, where they start filming stuff, without a complete script and just finish their endings, while shooting their beginnings. I think I heard somewhere that Kevin Feige likes to fix things in editing. Gunn stated he plans to run DC the opposite way and refuses to start any shooting, until all of the scripts are completed and approved. 

Well,  Marvels director Nia DaCosta said she was often filming stuff and not knowing what any of it meant. She also sounded pretty stressed out by the whole experience. It doesn’t sound like there is any joined up thinking between director and Disney, or anything that looks like a proper plan when making their movies. Covid doesn’t seem to have helped either 

[Werthead]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:59 PM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The reason Iron Man was the first one to get a sequel is because that was the breakout film. We could have just an easily had a more Thor or Captain America or Hulk centric infinity saga had things gone another way. 

Post Infinity Saga, which one is the breakout film? Spider-Man? I don’t see him as anchoring things in that way.

And hey, didn’t Thor kind of retire at the end of the last movie? It seemed like it to me. 

I actually think the plan was to use Spider-Man as an anchor character (possibly with Doctor Strange) but the Sony/Marvel dustup spooked Marvel and now they are very wary of relying on Spider-Man as a tentpole character. I'm not sure how the rights work with Miles Morales (can Marvel make new Spidey movies with Morales but now with Sony as long as they call them something else?) but that could be a backup plan.

If they get really desperate and decide not to bring back Tony, then one possibility - and it would be lame - would be to come up with some bullshit science way of de-aging Steve Rogers and re-deploying him for duty. Or - and this might work better - maybe use him in a mentor/advisory role.

They could still anchor the new Avengers films on bringing back Dr. Strange, Hulk, Thor and Hawkeye and building a new team around them, picking the best of the other characters (Shang-Chi, Yelena, Ms. Marvel and Kate Bishop seem to be the better-received of the next-gen characters). They could also do a redemption arc for Scarlet Witch. Not relying on Captain Marvel too much is probably a good thing, she's too powerful so you're constantly having to explain why she doesn't just vaporise the bad guy without a problem (even Endgame had that issue, with both Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch coming close to acing Thanos by themselves). I suspect Kit Harington's Black Knight will have to wait quite some time for the callup though (ha).

I think the big-picture, long-term plan is to bring in Fantastic Four and X-Men and try to really, really nail them, but that's a fairly big ask, especially for the latter.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Werthead

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

24 minutes ago, Werthead said:

If they get really desperate and decide not to bring back Tony, then one possibility - and it would be lame - would be to come up with some bullshit science way of de-aging Steve Rogers and re-deploying him for duty. Or - and this might work better - maybe use him in a mentor/advisory role.

 

[sifth]

51 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I actually think the plan was to use Spider-Man as an anchor character (possibly with Doctor Strange) but the Sony/Marvel dustup spooked Marvel and now they are very wary of relying on Spider-Man as a tentpole character. I'm not sure how the rights work with Miles Morales (can Marvel make new Spidey movies with Morales but now with Sony as long as they call them something else?) but that could be a backup plan.

Pretty sure Sony owns Miles as well. They are the ones who make those Spider Verse films. He also calls himself "Spider Man", so basically if they own the rights to Spider Man, that would include that character as well.

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

If they get really desperate and decide not to bring back Tony, then one possibility - and it would be lame - would be to come up with some bullshit science way of de-aging Steve Rogers and re-deploying him for duty. Or - and this might work better - maybe use him in a mentor/advisory role.

Feige has stated openly and officially that Stark won't be returning.

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

I actually think the plan was to use Spider-Man as an anchor character (possibly with Doctor Strange) but the Sony/Marvel dustup spooked Marvel and now they are very wary of relying on Spider-Man as a tentpole character. I'm not sure how the rights work with Miles Morales (can Marvel make new Spidey movies with Morales but now with Sony as long as they call them something else?) but that could be a backup plan.

As I understand it, Chadwick's T'Challa was meant to become the new leader of the Avengers following the events of Endgame, but with Boseman's passing, that threw a major wrench into Marvel's plans. And as you rightly pointed out with Spidey, the issues with Sony following the assorted leaks, ownership issue, etc., and the young age of the character doth not make for the kind of leader the Avengers require. 

And no one's really been presented thus far as a viable alternative, and the stories released after Endgame haven't really presented viewers with any plausible leaders thus far. And hey, it could ultimately make for an interesting narrative in the next Avengers movies: "we have no leader, we're rudderless, and are all isolated from one another, doing our own thing. What the hell do we do?"

[Liffguard]

6 hours ago, IlyaP said:

 And hey, it could ultimately make for an interesting narrative in the next Avengers movies: "we have no leader, we're rudderless, and are all isolated from one another, doing our own thing. What the hell do we do?"

Not a bad shout. It's definitely possible to combine narrative and meta-narrative like that and make it work. That was a major focus of the first Avengers movie after all.

[IlyaP]

2 hours ago, Liffguard said:

Not a bad shout. It's definitely possible to combine narrative and meta-narrative like that and make it work. That was a major focus of the first Avengers movie after all.

There'd still be a lot of narrative heavy lifting needed, to make introductions, get everyone on the same metaphorical page, deal with their own issues/mini-arcs, establish a primary A plot, secondary B plots, etc. 

A really, really strong character writer would be needed to make it all work and make sense and not feel like some kind of shark had been jumped.

[sifth]

The MCU needs a new Nick Fury, type character, traveling around and keeping track of all the characters.

Edited December 4, 2023 by sifth

[IlyaP]

10 minutes ago, sifth said:

The MCU needs a new Nick Fury, type character, traveling around and keeping track of all the characters.

Kamala seems to have that job now?

[Myrddin]

On 12/3/2023 at 12:20 AM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The Marvels box office is flatlining. Domestically, it's $25 mil behind The Flash. It may struggle to cross $200 mil worldwide. 

This thing'll be on D+ by Christmas. 

Which, thanks to the price hike, a lot less households will probably see it.

D+ has now joined the rotational streaming channels for us. We'll tune in sometime next summer to catch up, if there's anything worth catching up on.

[sifth]

4 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Kamala seems to have that job now?

Best of luck to her, lol

[SpaceChampion]

Another name change.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by SpaceChampion

[IlyaP]

2 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Another name change.

 

Magic 8-Ball predicts further absurd changes, with new titles proposed by the House of Absurdistania including: 

• Agatha: Lorem Ipsum
• Agatha Harkness Diaries
• Agatha Strikes Back
• Agatha: A Modern Witch In the City
• Agatha: A WandaVision Story
• Agatha: Send Help

The series won't be released until late next year, so hey, they still have time to change the title a few more times until then!

[Rhom]

I laughed.

[Martell Spy]

Watch ‘Echo’ Early, Marvel Bumps Up Series Premiere on Disney+

All 5 episodes of 'Echo' will release together.

 Marvel Studios announces Echo will premiere a day earlier on January 9, with a primetime release slot at 6PM PT/9PM ET on Disney+ and Hulu.
 Echo will explore a gritty and violent story, receiving a TV-MA rating, and will feature the return of Vincent D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk and Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock.
 Echo is the first title released under the new Marvel Studios Spotlight Banner, focusing on character-driven stories that are more realistic and grounded.

https://collider.com/echo-release-date-change/

Quote

 

Marvel Studios has just announced that Echo will premiere a day earlier than originally planned, on January 9. The series will also be getting a primetime release slot, hitting Disney+ and Hulu at 6PM PT/9PM ET. Echo sees Alaqua Cox reprise her breakout and trailblazing role Maya Lopez from the Hawkeye series. Maya returns home to face her past as it's the only way for her to move forward and embrace the true meaning of family. Both Vincent D'Onofrio and Charlie Cox will be reprising their roles as Wilson Fisk (aka the Kingpin) and Matt Murdock (aka Daredevil) respectively.

Echo will be the first Marvel-produced series to receive a TV-MA rating from the TV Parental Guidelines, as the show will explore a more gritty and violent story than any other Disney-produced Marvel series. Echo director Sydney Freeland discusses this approach to the series by explaining, "Coming off Hawkeye, Maya is a villain, so tonally, we wanted to lean into that." She acknowledges that previous Netflix-produced Marvel superhero shows such as Daredevil and The Punisher, have taken similar tones, expressing her "love" for that approach and how it helped to "[dictate] the tone."

 

 

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

All 5 episodes of 'Echo' will release together.

This is the way. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

6 hours ago, Rhom said:

I laughed.

That’s a bit harsh. 

I’m inclined not to dump too hard on that movie. It kind of feels like piling on at this point. 

Also, I’ve seen some of it and, mediocre as it may be, it isn’t WW84. Hell, it might not even be Thor 4. 

[Heartofice]

5 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

That’s a bit harsh. 

I’m inclined not to dump too hard on that movie. It kind of feels like piling on at this point. 

Also, I’ve seen some of it and, mediocre as it may be, it isn’t WW84. Hell, it might not even be Thor 4. 

There are definitely worse movies than The Marvels, and worse things in the MCU. 
 

I think it deserves the battering it’s getting just as a signal to Disney that they need to sort their shit out, it is probably the absolute low point for them and hopefully they will turn a corner and find a way to make movies and tv shows that hold together. 

[Myrddin]

While The Marvels looked fun, it was Ant Man 3 that kept me home. And Secret Invasion. And Eternals. And Thor 4.

Costs too much to see a movie in the theater to drop money on meh.