Dune part 2: the spoilers must flow (Spoilers for the movies)

[Relic]

3 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

Yeah, I think it was probably the most efficient way to get some of Paul's interiority into the film, always an issue with adaptations where the source material is so weighted with a main character's internal thoughts.  

 

For sure that's her purpose in this movie, but it's sooo heavy handed. Makes all the other Freman look pretty stupid, too.

[Kalbear]

44 minutes ago, Relic said:

For sure that's her purpose in this movie, but it's sooo heavy handed. Makes all the other Freman look pretty stupid, too.

I just assumed that most of the South are with Stilgar or are going to go along with them because, well, there are a lot. Most of the North ones are going to go with Chani, at least eventually. I would bet the Fedaykin are going to. Chani also has a very special set of information here; she has spent the most time with Paul, knows that he says he doesn't want to be a Messiah, etc - and Chani is feeling especially betrayed. Not just because of his relationship with the Fremen, but with his relationship with her. That's why the final straw is taking Irulan as his wife and telling her nothing. 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

The biggest issue I have is with the portrayal of the Harkonnens actually….they tried making them terrifying in the adaptation whereas they had more black humour in the books and were kinda weasily and cowards , similar to the Freys actually. Also has Frank Herbert himself ever said in an interview the correct way to pronounce Harkonnen ? Is it similar to the lynch or Denis version ? 

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, Relic said:

For sure that's her purpose in this movie, but it's sooo heavy handed. Makes all the other Freman look pretty stupid, too.

It’s an open question, though, whether Paul is exploiting the fundamentalists, or if they are exploiting him.  Perhaps both are true.

[SeanF]

4 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

The biggest issue I have is with the portrayal of the Harkonnens actually….they tried making them terrifying in the adaptation whereas they had more black humour in the books and were kinda weasily and cowards , similar to the Freys actually. Also has Frank Herbert himself ever said in an interview the correct way to pronounce Harkonnen ? Is it similar to the lynch or Denis version ? 

My guess is that depicting the Baron’s … appetites, in the film was thought contentious.

[Heartofice]

5 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

The biggest issue I have is with the portrayal of the Harkonnens actually….they tried making them terrifying in the adaptation whereas they had more black humour in the books and were kinda weasily and cowards , similar to the Freys actually. Also has Frank Herbert himself ever said in an interview the correct way to pronounce Harkonnen ? Is it similar to the lynch or Denis version ? 

I have to say by the end of the two movies, I much prefer the Lynch depiction of the Harknonnens. There was something more intimidating and appalling when it came the grossness of the Lynch version. It didn't shy away from the slimeyness, and in some ways the monochrome nature of the latest version made the Harknonnens rather beautiful! Not the aesthetic I would have gone for.

[Argonath Diver]

Villenueve could have delved into Baron's gross incestual fixation for Feyd, but I think for a big tentpole Hollywood release it worked great to have the whole Harkonnen faction depicted as creepy bloodthirsty psychopaths, even if it simplified all of their weird shit going in in Herbert's novels. I'm surprised and happy that a genre film is a colossal success in that it's made bonkers money in a week, on a property that I definitely did not think would ever reach mainstream appeal. 

Not even a big fan of the books but holy damn that Part 2 was superb and I'll see it again in a theater - the Dolby Surround experience was truly effective.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

1 hour ago, Argonath Diver said:

Villenueve could have delved into Baron's gross incestual fixation for Feyd, but I think for a big tentpole Hollywood release it worked great to have the whole Harkonnen faction depicted as creepy bloodthirsty psychopaths, even if it simplified all of their weird shit going in in Herbert's novels. I'm surprised and happy that a genre film is a colossal success in that it's made bonkers money in a week, on a property that I definitely did not think would ever reach mainstream appeal. 

Not even a big fan of the books but holy damn that Part 2 was superb and I'll see it again in a theater - the Dolby Surround experience was truly effective.

Well Dune is the best selling Sci Fi novel of all time, lets not pretend it belongs in the obscure literature thread  Probably why Hollywood keeps trying to adapt it in the first place. 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I have to say by the end of the two movies, I much prefer the Lynch depiction of the Harknonnens. There was something more intimidating and appalling when it came the grossness of the Lynch version. It didn't shy away from the slimeyness, and in some ways the monochrome nature of the latest version made the Harknonnens rather beautiful! Not the aesthetic I would have gone for.

Agreed, the Harkonnens were dissapointing in this version 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I have to say by the end of the two movies, I much prefer the Lynch depiction of the Harknonnens. There was something more intimidating and appalling when it came the grossness of the Lynch version. It didn't shy away from the slimeyness, and in some ways the monochrome nature of the latest version made the Harknonnens rather beautiful! Not the aesthetic I would have gone for.

To my mind, Lynch's version came over as caricature, partly because they were almost always screaming at each other, and their minions.  Villeneuve's Harkonnens, while depraved, are a bit more believably evil.  But, yes, the aesthetics of the arena are tremendous.  The musical score for Feyd-Rautha is incredible, too.

Even in the books though, the Harkonnens are too chaotically evil to have survived for centuries.  Nobody would willingly serve them, and those who served them unwillingly would eventually take them down, rather than be sacrificed in one of their sick games. 

1 hour ago, Argonath Diver said:

Villenueve could have delved into Baron's gross incestual fixation for Feyd, but I think for a big tentpole Hollywood release it worked great to have the whole Harkonnen faction depicted as creepy bloodthirsty psychopaths, even if it simplified all of their weird shit going in in Herbert's novels. I'm surprised and happy that a genre film is a colossal success in that it's made bonkers money in a week, on a property that I definitely did not think would ever reach mainstream appeal. 

Not even a big fan of the books but holy damn that Part 2 was superb and I'll see it again in a theater - the Dolby Surround experience was truly effective.

He's got an unhealthy fixation on Paul, too. He doesn't know that he's his grandson, but honestly, I don't think it would make any difference to the Baron, anyway.  The same way, it wouldn't matter to Aegon IV whether his mistress was his own daughter.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Well Dune is the best selling Sci Fi novel of all time, lets not pretend it belongs in the obscure literature thread  Probably why Hollywood keeps trying to adapt it in the first place. 

Back in the day, in the 1970's, many people read Dune who never before or after read an sf/f, not even after Star Wars, to which all had to take their kids and their kids' friends, many, many times.  As it was with LOtR -- they read that trilogy, had never read a fantasy before, and never did again.  But later had to take their grandkids to see the movies, with their grandkids' friends.

[Heartofice]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

To my mind, Lynch's version came over as caricature, partly because they were almost always screaming at each other, and their minions.  Villeneuve's Harkonnens, while depraved, are a bit more believably evil.

True, but I do very much appreciate the garishness of the Lynch version, and I would have liked to have seen a little bit more of that in the Villeneuve version. I don't think I really ever felt much for the new Baron, he's neither fat enough, nor evil enough, nor scheming enough. It's a minor criticism but if they do bring that element back in for 

Spoiler

Abomination

then it might not be so exciting.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

7 hours ago, SeanF said:

To my mind, Lynch's version came over as caricature, partly because they were almost always screaming at each other, and their minions.  Villeneuve's Harkonnens, while depraved, are a bit more believably evil.  But, yes, the aesthetics of the arena are tremendous.  The musical score for Feyd-Rautha is incredible, too.

Even in the books though, the Harkonnens are too chaotically evil to have survived for centuries.  Nobody would willingly serve them, and those who served them unwillingly would eventually take them down, rather than be sacrificed in one of their sick games. 

Lynch's film is definitely campier, but I feel it's much closer to the feel of the books, which can sometimes seem campy. (not to mention, some of the conversations in later Dune books make me feel like I'm in a David Lynch movie).

[SeanF]

24 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Lynch's film is definitely campier, but I feel it's much closer to the feel of the books, which can sometimes seem campy. (not to mention, some of the conversations in later Dune books make me feel like I'm in a David Lynch movie).

It wasn’t camp, but while I watched Dune 2, and saw the Fremen prostrating themselves and reciting prophecies, I did want someone to say “He’s not the Messiah, he’s just a naughty boy.”

[Corvinus85]

5 hours ago, Heartofice said:

True, but I do very much appreciate the garishness of the Lynch version, and I would have liked to have seen a little bit more of that in the Villeneuve version. I don't think I really ever felt much for the new Baron, he's neither fat enough, nor evil enough, nor scheming enough. It's a minor criticism but if they do bring that element back in for 

This baron is clearly fatter than the Lynch one. He's just as evil and and just as scheming. It's just that he isn't outwardly unhinged.

 

[Maltaran]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

It wasn’t camp, but while I watched Dune 2, and saw the Fremen prostrating themselves and reciting prophecies, I did want someone to say “He’s not the Messiah, he’s just a naughty boy.”

The bit where Stilgar was saying how Paul was so modest saying he wasn’t the Lisan Al-Gaib and that proved even more that he was felt very Pythonesque

[Cas Stark]

I much prefer 1984 Baron to the new one.  The loss of his hideous facial disease is a shame.  I love both Jessicas.  Always hated Kyle M so Chalamet is a big upgrade.  There is a lot to like in the Lynch version, even though there is a lot that is insanely bad.  It's a loss for the movies that they've eliminated almost completely the stuff about the spacing guild.  Dune should have a GOT kind of vibe to it.

[SeanF]

26 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

The bit where Stilgar was saying how Paul was so modest saying he wasn’t the Lisan Al-Gaib and that proved even more that he was felt very Pythonesque

Yes, I thought that at the time.

The problem is, when you see people in long robes and headscarves, all genuflecting and saying “Messiah”, “Lisan Al Gaib”, “Mahdi”, etc., it’s hard not to think of The Life of Brian.

All we needed was someone angrily saying “What have the Harkonnens ever done for us?”

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

19 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

The biggest issue I have is with the portrayal of the Harkonnens actually….they tried making them terrifying in the adaptation whereas they had more black humour in the books and were kinda weasily and cowards , similar to the Freys actually. Also has Frank Herbert himself ever said in an interview the correct way to pronounce Harkonnen ? Is it similar to the lynch or Denis version ? 

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]