HBO's "Westworld" [Spoilers!]

[Starkess]

I didn't really know much about this and was hesitant to watch it as Western settings don't really interest me, but I decided to watch the first two episodes. They have been hitting the SF elements hard enough that I'm not getting too caught up in the Westernness. I like it. Although now that I've read this thread I realize I'm just the sort of gullible viewer who takes everything at face value.  I read all these theories and go, huh, yeah, maybe I should have thought of that...

The biggest question I have so far is how the non-gun weapons are regulated. Like when the one arrogant guest (don't know their names yet--the bi guy in black with the whores) stabs the hosts hand on the tables. What if he was wrong about that being a host? Then he's just grievously injured another human. Edged weapons seem very dicey. I also noted the dangers of falling off cliffs, etc, but that is something that is a lot more easily waived than deliberate harm from a fellow guest.

[DireWolfSpirit]

But falling off those same cliffs is a real life risk in the Southwest so the safety bar at the park presumably wouldnt need to exceed the outside world? People fall into the Grand Canyon every now and then, they dont ban visitors, they have warnings but the park has some dangers just as a Westworld would as well i'm guessing?

[Darzin]

1 hour ago, Starkess said:

The biggest question I have so far is how the non-gun weapons are regulated. Like when the one arrogant guest (don't know their names yet--the bi guy in black with the whores) stabs the hosts hand on the tables. What if he was wrong about that being a host? Then he's just grievously injured another human. Edged weapons seem very dicey. I also noted the dangers of falling off cliffs, etc, but that is something that is a lot more easily waived than deliberate harm from a fellow guest.

I'm guessing they aren't regulated at all and the just assume people can tell, and I'm guessing someone will make a mistake and seriously kill or injure someone because of it which will raise questions. 

For the griefing problem in Westworld they need some kind of in world police like Skyrim has, that way killing people in the wilderness is no problem, but people usually don't kill people in towns as then you have to go on the lam and can't really spend time normally in the town. 

[briantw]

41 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

But falling off those same cliffs is a real life risk in the Southwest so the safety bar at the park presumably wouldnt need to exceed the outside world? People fall into the Grand Canyon every now and then, they dont ban visitors, they have warnings but the park has some dangers just as a Westworld would as well i'm guessing?

I'd also assume that the geography of Westworld is sculpted in such a manner so as to promote maximum guest safety.  Beyond that, I'm guessing everyone signs a basic liability waiver that protects the park (or whatever you want to call it) from lawsuits due to basic guest negligence.  If you fall off a cliff, that's on you, essentially.  

[Ramsay B.]

2 hours ago, Baitac said:

This stuff is so complicated. I feel like we're back to True Detective-like discussions. Really loving this show. I wish I could binge watch it. I want know it all NOW!

Yup, and everytime I read some of the theories here, particularly regarding the MiB, it makes me just want to rewatch the episode to look for clues. Fun to see how it plays out.

Starkess, that was probably the first question I had. I feel like they would have to deal with accidental human killings. Some people just go there to murder things, and then throw alcohol into the mix and there has to be mistakes made quite frequently. I'm sure the show will get into it before long.

[red snow]

10 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I'll start to buy into your theory a little, because I do believe that the MiB and his past is distinctly wrapped up in what's going on with Dolores and what Ford is up to now.

I prefer the version that the MiB is William, that something happened brought him into his current level of crazy.  That the MiB says he was reborn at the park would feed that idea some.

Yeah - If my hunch is right they'll maybe start to make us think Logen is the MiB due to the black dress and violent tendencies (and disinterest in the scripted parts of the game) but it's much more of an interesting journey with William who so far seems reluctant but maybe becomes addicted to the game and in love with Delores. Plus if you squint through tv lenses the actor playing William could look a bit like Ed Harris in 30 years.

Ford having a host replica of his own childhood is also really interesting and muddies the potential avenues even further. It could mean MiB is a host based on a human? It might explain how shit hot he is with a gun although i think that's largely down to him predicting the rhythms of the games in knowing where to point and shoot.

also loved the piano version of "no surprises" by radiohead - a deliberate choice I suspect. Wonder if we'll get "paranoid android" at some point

[red snow]

6 hours ago, Baitac said:

This stuff is so complicated. I feel like we're back to True Detective-like discussions. Really loving this show. I wish I could binge watch it. I want know it all NOW!

Definitely. I love shows that spark this much debate and variety of theories. I guess that's an appeal of GOT to non-readers too. But it does seem like True Detective was the last show to generate so much discussion on the entertainment thread. Hopefully this won't suffer as much from season 2.

[Jaxom 1974]

48 minutes ago, red snow said:

Yeah - If my hunch is right they'll maybe start to make us think Logen is the MiB due to the black dress and violent tendencies (and disinterest in the scripted parts of the game) but it's much more of an interesting journey with William who so far seems reluctant but maybe becomes addicted to the game and in love with Delores. Plus if you squint through tv lenses the actor playing William could look a bit like Ed Harris in 30 years.

Ford having a host replica of his own childhood is also really interesting and muddies the potential avenues even further. It could mean MiB is a host based on a human? It might explain how shit hot he is with a gun although i think that's largely down to him predicting the rhythms of the games in knowing where to point and shoot.

also loved the piano version of "no surprises" by radiohead - a deliberate choice I suspect. Wonder if we'll get "paranoid android" at some point

I've believed, since the begging, that if the MiB is a host, that he and Dolores and maybe a few others, are actually based on real people.  Hence their longevity as hosts, rather than simply being retired.

[dbunting]

A few thoughts of my own.

I do not see this episode as being a bunch of flashbacks to the MiB's first arrival to WW. The "hosts" are way to modern compared to the originals Ford was talking to.

MiB, still clueless to him. I tend to believe he is human and that something happened to him when he visited and now he keeps going back looking for someone?

As to the terrain, is it possible that the cliffs are CGI and the visitors just believe they are on a cliff?

I also believe the gun Delores was given is real.

And nothing to do with anything, but those war paint colors on the Indians was awesome.

[Destiel's Child]

I found some interesting tidbits from booking my trip on discoverwestworld.com

Statistically speaking, you are more likely to die from lightning strike than to die while in a Delos park. However, the following causes of accidental death have occurred within the Delos Destinations compound: buffalo stampede, self- cannibalism, accidental hanging,drowning, 3rd-degree burns, autoerotic asphyxiation, blunt force trauma, allergic reaction to non-native plant life, falling from great heights, common manslaughter, tumbleweeds. You absolve Delos, Inc. of any wrongdoing if you or anyone in your party suffers bodily harm while using The Service, and you agree to not sue or prosecute Delos, Inc. or any of the smaller entities falling under the Delos Corporation.

have occurred...self-cannibalism and tumbleweeds :-)

All weapons and equipment used within Delos parks are the exclusive property of Delos, Inc. Gun ammunition contains proprietary safeguards related to bullet velocity, and tampering with gun safety features or ammunition automatically transfers liability to you and absolves Delos, Inc. of any injury or death that may occur as a result.

so that solves the gun issue

By entering the Delos Destinations Port of Entry, you acknowledge that Delos, Inc. controls the rights to and remains the sole owner of, in perpetuity: all skin cells, bodily fluids, secretions, excretions, hair samples, saliva, sweat, blood, and any other bodily functions not listed here. Delos, Inc. reserves the right to use this property in any way, shape, or form in which the entity sees fit.

and that's just scary.

So, I was also thinking about the word "hosts".  If the plan is to download consciousness, then host is a very appropriate term.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I hope the above means we'regoing to see some of those situitions involving people and if we're going to ever see any of those other destinations. 

[Mark Antony]

2 hours ago, dbunting said:

I do not see this episode as being a bunch of flashbacks to the MiB's first arrival to WW. The "hosts" are way to modern compared to the originals Ford was talking to.

MiB, still clueless to him. I tend to believe he is human 

Agreed The William = MIB theory doesn't add up imo not to mention Mcpoyle looks absolutely nothing like Ed Harris. Think he's just set up to be the white hat to Ed Harris black. 

Yeah I definitely lean towards thinking that the MIB is human. The showrunners said he was which could easily be a lie but also the line from last episode saying "he gets whatever he wants" leads me to believe he is a VIP guest or something. 

[dbunting]

44 minutes ago, Destiel's Child said:

I found some interesting tidbits from booking my trip on discoverwestworld.com

Statistically speaking, you are more likely to die from lightning strike than to die while in a Delos park. However, the following causes of accidental death have occurred within the Delos Destinations compound: buffalo stampede, self- cannibalism, accidental hanging,drowning, 3rd-degree burns, autoerotic asphyxiation, blunt force trauma, allergic reaction to non-native plant life, falling from great heights, common manslaughter, tumbleweeds. You absolve Delos, Inc. of any wrongdoing if you or anyone in your party suffers bodily harm while using The Service, and you agree to not sue or prosecute Delos, Inc. or any of the smaller entities falling under the Delos Corporation.

 

Well, if falls from great heights is listed, then I guess they are really up on cliffs, so much for my thoughts!

 

45 minutes ago, Destiel's Child said:

 

By entering the Delos Destinations Port of Entry, you acknowledge that Delos, Inc. controls the rights to and remains the sole owner of, in perpetuity: all skin cells, bodily fluids, secretions, excretions, hair samples, saliva, sweat, blood, and any other bodily functions not listed here. Delos, Inc. reserves the right to use this property in any way, shape, or form in which the entity sees fit.

 

As to this, yeah, cloning or artificial insemination, evidence for black mail all comes to mind.

[red snow]

2 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I've believed, since the begging, that if the MiB is a host, that he and Dolores and maybe a few others, are actually based on real people.  Hence their longevity as hosts, rather than simply being retired.

It's certainly the best way to achieve human behaviour by somehow copying human thought patterns onto a host. If the kid Ford was talking to was a younger facsimile of him then he's already done so.

2 hours ago, dbunting said:

A few thoughts of my own.

I do not see this episode as being a bunch of flashbacks to the MiB's first arrival to WW. The "hosts" are way to modern compared to the originals Ford was talking to.

MiB, still clueless to him. I tend to believe he is human and that something happened to him when he visited and now he keeps going back looking for someone?

As to the terrain, is it possible that the cliffs are CGI and the visitors just believe they are on a cliff?

I also believe the gun Delores was given is real.

And nothing to do with anything, but those war paint colors on the Indians was awesome.

First bolded point. Like I said it's a stretch but not a cheat to say they rolled back the "realness" of the hosts at a very early stage in development.

I think the MiB as a human is a nice twist but in general I'm enjoying the ambiguity of the character and hope they can keep it up for at least a good chunk of the season.

second bolded point. That's a really good point and adds much more weight to the scene. Initially I thought it was just a way for her to break the routine of the gang coming and killing her/her family but it could really mix things up if this gun could be used on real people too.

I hope we get an episode focusing a bit more on James Marsden's character. I really feel for him as it almost appears he has to die - he's like the show's Kenny.

It also seems like the hosts have had multiple "lives" and personalities. The madam/whore appears to have been a character who dies at the hands of Indians and that doesn't feel like background to her current persona. A fleeting thought was that if MiB was a host he may have been Delores' dad at one point but the MiB is so up in the air almost anything is possible.

[Arkash]

The show has made me so paranoid about everyone that now I am convinced that everyone but Ford and the MiB are just hosts...

At least when it comes to the facility team, behind the curtains. Didnt make my mind about the guests yet.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

6 minutes ago, Arkash said:

The show has made me so paranoid about everyone that now I am convinced that everyone but Ford and the MiB are just hosts...

At least when it comes to the facility team, behind the curtains. Didnt make my mind about the guests yet.

That would be a complete mindfuck if they were. But I feel like the story would lose something when all of the decommissioned hosts wake up and start going crazy inside the control center. The creepy old prospector host is going to kill Ford. 

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

 

First bolded point. Like I said it's a stretch but not a cheat to say they rolled back the "realness" of the hosts at a very early stage in development.

 

But if we are to believe what we see and what we are told (meaning this isn't Mr Robot) then that can't be true. MiB said he has been coming there for 30 years. If man on the train this week was him 30 years ago, the "hosts" all look exactly the same as they do in current time when MiB interacts with them now. Assume man on train is MiB, he sees Delores and what he sees then is exactly what the current visitors see her doing now. Shouldn't something have changed over 30 years? Same trip to town, same can falling out when she is packing the horse, story line is exactly the same?  

I don't dislike a flashback theory, but if they are doing it, it seems off.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Does Delores really have a storyline though? 

[red snow]

45 minutes ago, Arkash said:

The show has made me so paranoid about everyone that now I am convinced that everyone but Ford and the MiB are just hosts...

At least when it comes to the facility team, behind the curtains. Didnt make my mind about the guests yet.

Those techs were certainly very worried for people who shouldn't be able to be harmed by hosts when Thandie Newton's character had the scalpel. Then again, I'd err on the side of caution - especially when dealing with a faulty model.

There's also the fact William was interacting with a host before going into Westworld suggesting they have hosts on the outside too. To be honest if the tech was affordable the hosts would be everywhere and used as slaves. They don't need personalities they can just be programmed to do the task at hand.

Ford having management as merely another level of his testing would be a bit of a mindfuck.

19 minutes ago, dbunting said:

But if we are to believe what we see and what we are told (meaning this isn't Mr Robot) then that can't be true. MiB said he has been coming there for 30 years. If man on the train this week was him 30 years ago, the "hosts" all look exactly the same as they do in current time when MiB interacts with them now. Assume man on train is MiB, he sees Delores and what he sees then is exactly what the current visitors see her doing now. Shouldn't something have changed over 30 years? Same trip to town, same can falling out when she is packing the horse, story line is exactly the same?  

I don't dislike a flashback theory, but if they are doing it, it seems off.

What makes you think the hosts age? But you do raise a valid point of whether all the hosts are playing the same character and whether similar storylines are playing out. In terms of storyline I'd say it's evidence for a flashback as rather than having the sheriff go out to hunt a criminal it's a bunch of civil war soldiers planning on heading out (can't remember if it was to fight the other side or the indians). The "hidden treasure" guy wasn't in the last episode but was in Williams. I don't think we saw Teddy in William's scenes either. I'd think it's more improbable for them to be running different "storylines" in Westworld simultaneously - especially when the author character was complaining about being short on hosts.

I don't think there's any evidence of the hosts playing different roles between William and "present" scenes though.

[red snow]

21 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Does Delores really have a storyline though? 

From what we've seen it's get up, go into town. If no-one interupts her she goes to do some painting. If she goes home on time she is probably killed by the bandits (unless someone diverts the bandit storyline). I think her encounter with Teddy is probably the standard (and the painting is an alt routine) program too. Thereason for this is the second episodes "the hosts practice on each other". Her hanging out with Teddy is a good way for her to practice the "girl next door" routine and I'm pretty sure this is how they referred to her at the end of the episode.