kissdbyfire

The order of events in Bran’s vision seems very clear to me... and in this part specifically it’s Lyanna and Benjen, the pregnant woman, and Dunk and Old Nan. So, the pregnant woman being tied into the whole Bael thing would feel a bit weird, because that’s just way too recent for no one to ever bring it up at all.

FWIW: https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Hornwood_Inheritance_and_the_Whents

Definitely. Then again, maybe not. I want nothing more than for Dawn and AD to play significant roles, so to speak. But the possibility exists for not much more being revealed about either or both. For instance, if way back when Martin just thought about giving the lady Ashara Dayne a somewhat mysterious brother with a very cool sword. Mind you, I don’t think that’s the case, but it is within the realm of possibilities imo. Not sure I follow... I get the LH/NK bit but not sure what you mean by “Day’s King”. I think you mean the sword (underlined)? But it’s not that the legend says the sword should only be used against supernatural foes, but that ser Galladon refused to use it against mortal enemies. “Ser Galladon was a champion of such valor that the Maiden herself lost her heart to him. She gave him an enchanted sword as a token of her love. The Just Maid, it was called. No common sword could check her, nor any shield withstand her kiss. Ser Galladon bore the Just Maid proudly, but only thrice did he unsheathe her. He would not use the Maid against a mortal man, for she was so potent as to make any fight unfair.” This x “n”.

It’s a Meereen chapter, I expected better. The KG serve the king, and it’s to the king they swear their vows. The king may extend their ‘services’, most commonly to close family. But the king may also decide to keep all 7 exclusively in his own service. ADwD, The Queensguard “The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king’s commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and keep silent when it was not, serve his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking, it was purely the king’s choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others, even those of royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard to serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of greater and lesser degree, and occasionally even their lovers, mistresses, and bastards. But others preferred to use household knights and men-at-arms for those purposes, whilst keeping their seven as their own personal guard, never far from their sides.”

Fuck knows. Seriously, it’s actually literally impossible to be sure w/ the information we have been given so far. There are a number of possibilities that seem... viable at the moment imo. One thing I’m fairly certain of is, when we get the “full” reveal, there will be more layers and more greyness and more... questions! Nor will you. Well, not until Marin fills in the [many] blanks.

No, it really isn’t. Or else, support your claim. Lyanna vanished, and the Rebellion kicked off many months later. Again, no. Many months in between, like I said. If Lyanna’s abduction/whatever is to blame, then we can also blame the tourney at HH? Or maybe Aerys’ mum and dad for having fathered him? Nope, the trigger to the Rebellion was Aerys demanding that Arryn murders his wards and send their heads to KL.

Maybe I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone saying that. Because it’s really silly, innit? Of course Martin plays tricks, plenty of them. Only he doesn’t play them forever, and then spring something out of a hat that hadn’t been mentioned or hinted at at all previously. @three-eyed monkey has an excellent recent post on this, just can’t recall where.

No, what “unleashed revolution across the kingdom” was a king who was clearly insane demanding the heads of two nobles whose protection had been entrusted to a third, after said mad, deranged, unfit-to-rule king had already murdered two nobles.

These are all very fair points. I have been thinking about Dayne as Jon’s dad as you propose. I have to say, nothing would please me more. There are two Targs I really like, Egg and Baelor Breakspear. So, yeah. And even though we don’t really know that much about the last [known] Sword of the Morning, I will say the idea of him and Lyanna being Jon’s parents is enticing... still, when all is said and done we only have very little in terms of indisputable facts and have to go w/ limited actual info, I don’t really see anything fitting as well as R+L=J. All the doubts and iffy stuff in the text, all the possibilities it leaves open, are the distractions, the red herrings. Or I could be totally wrong.

How have you reached this conclusion?

With what we know at present we have to at least consider the possibility of that happening. At some point, and for whatever reason (but most likely imo, a combo of reasons), Dayne. Whent and Hightower break their KG vows and unequivocally side w/ Rhaegar. But... <snip> This may have been part of the “deal”. We do have Rhaegar telling Jaime he was planning on making changes, and that he regretted not having acted sooner. There’s a whole lot that was triggered at some point. IMO this point is Rickard and Brandon’s “execution”. Aerys had to go, and stay go. I think that, with what we have, we must at least allow for the possibility that Rhaegar came clean about his ideas to those he hadn’t before, like Hightower (b/c I think it very likely that Dayne and Went were already acting as they’re sworn to Rhaegar imo). And Hightower goes w/ it; against his vows, but for the greater good. Only the idea is to remove Aerys as “diplomatically”as possible and keep the Targ dynasty in power. So Rhaegar has them staying at the ToJ, and goes back to KL to lead the loyalist army. The rest is history... And to be clear, I’m not saying this is what happened, only that it could have happened. Yes, and Jaime was the wild card. Also, @Lord Varys, I have seen you argue differently before regarding the KG duty to follow orders from anyone but the king. Yes, usually they do protect and obey royals in general, especially the king’s immediate family. But we know that that is at the kings’ orders.

Speaking of muddled brains... I think I’ve read the whole thread but I could be wrong. Where are you on Jon’s parents? Lyanna and Dayne?

Well, I must say it is a pleasure to be able to speculate w/ such fine and well-versed posters, even if we disagree more often than not.

I never said it was a good or bad decision, nor that Aerys had instructed them this way or that way, did I? My point was that I personally don’t care for a KG knight who sticks to his vows when in doing so they are betraying what it means to be a true knight. We don’t really have an awful lot info on any of that, though, do we? We know Darry apparently had no problems standing guard while Aerys raped and brutalised Rhaella, and that Hightower reminded Jaime that the KG vows are about protecting the king, not judging him. Which indicates that he knew it was wrong imo. So, yeah, maybe it did get to a point where the KG, or some KG members had had enough. No, not suddenly at all. As you pointed out, they had seen Aerys’s act like a mad, cruel, unstable, dangerous person many times. And at some point it just becomes too much. Also, not sure why you’re banging on about the oath-breaking, since I never said they weren’t oath-breakers, but rather that there are instances where breaking your oath is the only decent thing you can do. No argument from me on this.

I tend to agree here, but the fact is, we can’t really be sure. Indeed. Agree completely. I never said otherwise...