The Walking Dead Season 6: "Who's Neegan?" (no comics spoilers)

[Pecan]

5 hours ago, First of My Name said:

Rosita was the fourth. But why are you sure it was one of them?

Because of how they showed the beating from the perspective of the person being beat to death. Throughout the episode, they showed that same perspective from the point of view of one of the four prisoners stuck inside that trailer (or whatever it was they crawled out of near the end). 

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

On another note I thought of something that makes me think maybe it wasn't Maggie. A sick pregnant woman probably wouldn't "take it like a champ." Though again I should just stop trying to apply logic to this show at this point. 

Lol, have to agree on the lack of logic. Hmm liets drive this RV into 16 road blocks before we finally figure out that the saviors are superior and we are screwed!

1 hour ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

Made a 'Who's gonna die" pool at work for the finale. Everyone threw in $5 with their prediction. Looks like everyone gets their money back. Thanks, AMC.

Yeah our pool at work is screwed too. I was leading by 3 points so whoever died in the end would settle it. Carol was the ringer for me to lose, the other person was happy as hell until the heroes on horses showed up and she lived. So our bet was based on who died this season, and technically whoever that was in the finale will decide it, so our pool is stuck until next year. Anyone except Eugene, Sasha, and Rosita and I win.

I don't mind a cliffhanger, but damn how many are you going to do in a series / season? What harm would it have done to zoom in from the dark from above and slowly see the light and the people and finally the body?

[First of My Name]

19 minutes ago, Pecan said:

Because of how they showed the beating from the perspective of the person being beat to death. Throughout the episode, they showed that same perspective from the point of view of one of the four prisoners stuck inside that trailer (or whatever it was they crawled out of near the end). 

Huh, hadn't considered that. I wouldn't take it as definite proof but it's an interesting thought.

[Pecan]

Here's a more comprehensive view of why I think it was Glenn that was killed:

1) It has to be a major character. It can't be someone like Sasha or Rosita or Eugene that we won't care that much about. It has to be someone important enough to the audience and important enough to the group for that person's death to drive the narrative next season. Gimple basically made that clear on TTD afterwards. 

2) We know it's not Rick or Coral and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that "taking it like a champ" implies a male character. So that narrows it down to Abe, Eugene, Aaron, Darryl, or Glen. Of those five, only Darryl and and Glenn (in my opinion) qualify as important enough. I know a lot of people think it was Abe, but I think that's too obvious and I still don't see him as central enough to the group for his death to drive what happens next. I do think Abe is a goner next season, but he's gonna take a bunch of saviors with him. I think that's basically what he's there for. 

3) Another reason I'm thinking Darryl or Glenn is because of the way the beating was shown from the first person perspective of the person being beaten to death. At a few points earlier in the episode, they showed us that same perspective from the point of view of one of the prisoners from last week. I think the reason they did that is to give us a clue that the person being killed is one of the four. The four prisoners are Darryl, Glenn, Michonne, and Rosita. Rosita isn't important enough. It could be Michonne, but like I said earlier, I think it's a male character. So that leaves Darryl and Glenn.

4) Between Darryl and Glenn, I choose Glenn as the more meaningful death. Glenn is the one with a baby on the way and his death will have a major impact on Maggie and her character development going forward. But, more importantly, Glenn is one of the characters on the show that has really tried to retain his humanity. His entire character is about helping people. Four examples of that: 1) helping Rick escape the tank, 2) helping Tara escape the prison, 3) helping Nicholas learn how to survive (obviously didn't quite work out) and, 4) convincing Enid to come back to Alexandria. 

That's my argument. Take it or leave it. 

[The Unborn]

One of the worst part of that final 10 seconds what the use of CGI blood dripping down the screen, just like last week. It felt like I was playing House of the Dead...

[Dr. Pepper]

One of the problems with speculating about who died is that they didn't kill anyone.  Sure, the showrunners say they killed someone and a barbed bat to the head multiple times implies a dead body.  But they went out of their way to not even provide any meaningful clues about who may or may not be dead.  The only thing we can be certain about is that it probably wasn't Rick or Carl.  They left it so that it literally could have been any one of them.  They don't even need to make a decision until ink is dried on contracts, all the feedback about the season is read, and filming starts anew.  We'll all probably know soon after the decision's been made because it's not a spoiler that could be easily kept.  

 

[Pecan]

DP, I hear what you're saying, but what about the first person perspective of the beating victim? If it isn't one of the four prisoners from last week, then they're basically lying to the viewers. I understand the cynicism people have, but would they really tell a lie? 

[l2 0 5 5]

The ambiguous death is very frustrating. When I think of some of the most memorable deaths in tv history, I think of The Wire, Sopranos, and a few deaths in GoT, etc.  These deaths happen in real time and it takes you by surprise. You're really in that moment watching a character die and it evokes a lot of emotion. The ambiguous death we saw last night won't have that same effect when we find out whom died this coming October. Yeah, that's 7 months from now... At that point it will have lost its intrigue. That's a shame.

[princess_snow]

1 hour ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

The ambiguous death is very frustrating. When I think of some of the most memorable deaths in tv history, I think of The Wire, Sopranos, and a few deaths in GoT, etc.  These deaths happen in real time and it takes you by surprise. You're really in that moment watching a character die and it evokes a lot of emotion. The ambiguous death we saw last night won't have that same effect when we find out whom died this coming October. Yeah, that's 7 months from now... At that point it will have lost its intrigue. That's a shame.

Good point. They ruined it. For what its worth I was thinking its Eugene.

[The Anti-Targ]

Oh I forgot about Aaron in my laundry list. Yes he's a chicken out option for the writers. Well liked by the group, and a pivotal member of the og Alexandrians. But not much audience pull. He's also a reasonable candidate for "taken like a champ" because he doesn't look terribly hardy.

I guess I like the show most when it's trying to struggle with internal group dynamics trying to establish a stable micro-society in this new world. And I don't really like the show when there's an external ever more evil tyrant threatening the group as the main plot thread.

[Dr. Pepper]

44 minutes ago, Pecan said:

DP, I hear what you're saying, but what about the first person perspective of the beating victim? If it isn't one of the four prisoners from last week, then they're basically lying to the viewers. I understand the cynicism people have, but would they really tell a lie? 

The show has 'lied' to viewers many times.  Though, the more appropriate word is probably 'mislead'.  They also have a very long history of screwing up continuity and/or simply forgetting.  Just the return from mid-season hiatus was a total joke and a great example about how they screw this shit up all the time.  

I think the first person POV is a good theory.  I just don't find it more compelling than any other theory at this point.  They went out of their way to provide set up for other potential bludgeoned heads.  The "One of Us Will Die Soon" music played over the super sappy goodbye between Eugene and Abe.  Sasha and Abe had a "One of Us Will Die Soon" chat.  Aaron had an "I Am Suddenly Getting Screen Time For No Apparent Reason and Will Probably Die Soon" arc.  I don't find many Maggie theories compelling anyway, but there was a bit of "I'm Dying Anyway From Eating Bad Pickles/Might Have Appendicitis, May as Well Be Dead" vibe coming from her.  I feel confident the writers will have forgotten about all of the hints they sprinkled throughout the season 6 finale when season 7 starts.  Same as how they will forget what time of day it was.  With how they set it up throughout the finale and going on their history, any accurate pick for the bludgeoned head would just be luck.  

If this show ever paid attention to what it wrote, my pick would be Glenn, and based on a lot of reasons you've provided.  Glenn has always represented the best of things.  Hope, humanity, kindness, the future, etc.  All of that sort of symbolically died when he committed his first act of murder on those sleeping people.  Then he start at photos of bludgeoned heads above his murder victim.  

On another note, I've seen a lot of dead Aaron theories all over the internetz.  It cracks me up.  Not because I think they are bad theories, but because I never ever in a million years would have thought they put Aaron in that position.  They have been almost disgustingly atrocious with the LGBT characters this season.  Aaron's presence with the RV group barely even made sense.  He owed Maggie something?  What?  Why didn't he remind us or inform us for the first time?  Is there still a debt for bandaging Eric's ankle or something?  If so, fucking lame.  There have been a bajillion articles recently about the continued mistreatment of LGBT characters on tv, with TWD taking special criticism.  It's probably a good thing that they didn't make a decision on who to kill because if it was going to be Aaron, they at least have a chance to reevaluate just how terrible that would be.  

[AndrewJ]

13 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Maggie - No, you can't kill a pregnant woman, only Game of Thrones does that...although maybe they want to out GoT GoT by murdering a pregnant woman the audience actually likes. But no, I don't think so. And Negan figures she's about to die anyway so why end someone's suffering?

Sasha - probable, all that talk about maybe having babies makes her seem too happy to last. Pretty big audience impact.

While watching the scene play out, I was saying to my wife that Sasha was gonna go. Both for the reason(s) you mention above, but also for the fact that she was prominently placed in the kneeling line-up. We had lots of shots of Rick - being flanked by Maggie and Sasha. So I was thinking one of those two had to go - for maximum impact on Rick and for being so prominently displayed throughout. And for the very reasons you mention above, my money was on Sasha (she seems to be reaching a happy place with Abe, somewhat out of nowhere - just in time to increase the impact of her death).

Now we have the cliff-hanger... i'm staying with Sasha as my pick. But it does lessen the impact a little of her being prominently positioned throughout Neegan's speech. We won't get the pay-off until next season, so that effect will have long since dissipated. But still... the prominence of her position will still be there when we see the actual scene play out - it will just be somewhat lessened. So... Sasha.

 

As for the cliff-hanger ending... I disliked it as it happened and it annoyed me (though I was sort of expecting it). But then I realised that it will drive lots of discussion and debate (such as AT's post analysing all the contenders) - in this thread and many others like it all over the internet. So.. we get some interesting discussion and speculation out of it (which I'm sure is what they were aiming for). So... I kind of accept it now.

 

[Howdyphillip]

Best comment I heard about the ending of last night's episode,,,

 

" Do you know why they filmed that death scene in the first person? That was me as a viewer dying to get away from this show."

[Tears of Lys]

9 hours ago, The Unborn said:

One of the worst part of that final 10 seconds what the use of CGI blood dripping down the screen, just like last week. It felt like I was playing House of the Dead...

Yes!  I guess that was their attempt at being tongue-in-cheek, "artsy."    If you watch Talking Dead, from the comments that are made, you can tell they really think they're the second coming of Truffaut or Fellini.  They practically giggle in their elation at what they've done. 

[Free Northman Reborn]

Good analysis in one article I just read on why it is Michonne. The likelihood is strong that the person who got Lucilled was the same one whose first person view we got from inside the van where our 4 prisoners were kept. And from a careful analysis of their positions when they emerged vs the angle that the POV prisoner had on the inside of the van, they conclude that Michonne is the likely victim.

Also,  the producers stated afterwards that this development is all about the traumatic effect it will have on Rick's mindset and personality, how he goes from over confident to horrified after this episode.

Which links back nicely to the apple in bed episode with Michonne.

Other than Carl - who is obviously untouchable - Michonne's death will likely be the most traumatic for Rick at this stage.

 

[dooog]

29 minutes ago, Tears of Lys said:

Yes!  I guess that was their attempt at being tongue-in-cheek, "artsy."    If you watch Talking Dead, from the comments that are made, you can tell they really think they're the second coming of Truffaut or Fellini.  They practically giggle in their elation at what they've done. 

 

I was practically forced to watch Talking Dead yesterday and I genuinely have a hard time understanding why this show exists. It's basically just 4 or 5 guys patting each other on the back talking a lot without actually saying anything, a bunch of subway commercials, a few pre recorded fan questions and some eyeroll inducing polls.

I assume they're only allowed say positive things and there's no room for being objective? That presenter must hate himself, I would say he's working in the mail room of presenting, but the mailroom is honest work

[DireWolfSpirit]

I dont want it to be Michone. Rosita, Daryl, Carl, Sasha or Rick.

So my hopefuls are Eugene, Abraham, Glen or Maggie.

[Relic]

this conversation over who died is fucking dumb. the writers/producers haven't decided who died. 

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

this conversation over who died is fucking dumb. the writers/producers haven't decided who died. 

Nonsense. Of course they have. 

EDIT

The taking it like a champ comment makes me doubt my Michonne theory though. That sounds a strange turn of phrase if he was referring to a woman. If not Michonne, it is definitely Glenn.

 

[Relic]

9 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Nonsense. Of course they have. 

you're hilarious.