Avengers: Infinity War - SPOILERS THREAD

[Martell Spy]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

I thought the way Strange defeated Dormammu was great... But it might not work on Thanos once he had some of the other stones. As for Thor needing a weapon, he specifically felt he needed one with the power of the Bifrost (like Heimdall's sword or Odin's spear.) I'm not sure why he thought that, but maybe they cut a scene during Thanos's initial attack where Heimdall's sword is effective against Thanos but then heimdall gets grievously wounded?

These are all really good points. The reality stone seemed totally different in Thor 2. 

Also Thor's excuse as to why Asgard didn't protect Nidavellir doesn't add up. Thanos had the gauntlet at the end of Age of Ultron, well before Asgard was destroyed. Presumably it was Loki-as-Odin who failed to protect them. 

Thanos clearly thinks the axe would kill him, too, if it struck off his head.

[Werthead]

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Speaking of which the title of the next one was supposed to be a spoiler for this one, so do any of you who know the comics better have any ideas what it could be?

 

The Infinity Gauntlet Saga in the comic filled several story arcs called Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity War and Infinity Crusade. Infinity Crusade is the obvious title to use: the surviving heroes have to take the fight to Thanos to claim the Gauntlet.

 

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It will be an emo feels stomach punch if the only way they can undo things/wield the infinity gems is if Stark, Steve and Thor do so together (as established in GOTG - a stones destructive power can be shared) but burn out in the process. It'd probably be even more poetic if Hulk, Hawkeye and Black Widow were part of said cycle as it would truly issue in the next gen of the MCU. But I have a feeling it'll be the franchise holders not the one film/guest star avengers.

 

There's now an actual Black Widow movie on the way, although it's been speculated it might be an origin story so Infinity War might have no impact on it.

[RumHam]

3 hours ago, Denvek said:

My prediction for the next one is that Captain America is going to sacrifice himself at the Soul Stone planet as part of the plan to bring back the people who died at the end of this one. Why else have Red Skull as the guardian? If we're not seeing that planet again then it would have been Ronan as the guardian for the connection with Thanos and Gamora, but having Red Skull there and not having him meet Cap in Part II would be a massive letdown.

That's a good point I hadn't considered. I was even thinking it was a shame they wouldn't get to share the screen again and now I really hope they do. 

Ronan is dead, I figured Red Skull was alive and was just teleported there by the tesseract. Though I did not consider how he was still alive after all this time without being frozen. 

[The Anti-Targ]

Just saw it. The most epic of all MCU movies that's for sure. I think I would re-watch Thor Ragnarok more often before getting sick of it. But I'm not sure whether that means I think Ragnarok is the better film. I'd definitely re-watch Infinity War more than Black Panther, so I'm pretty sure that puts Black Panther behind Thor 3 and Infinity War in my MCU BOAT.

What the hell is it with people NOT killing one person (a synth at that) in order to save trillions of lives? Right now I say this: You have my permission to take me out, if killing me means saving half of the lives in the universe*.

Vision dies anyway (for now). I was thinking that some how they would find a way to keep the mind or time stone away from Thanos until the next movie. At least that way the major plot weakness of not killing Vision as a preventative measure would have seemed to work, for this movie at least. 

Too many key phase 4 character deaths for the end to be really impactful; though I suppose it's a question now about who comes back because reasons, who was a Skrull and only the doppelganger dies, and who is dead dead. We all know a bunch of those folks are coming back. Some of them may be Skrulls, others will come back with some shenannigans with the time stone or something. I wonder if Spiderman Homecoming 2 will take place before Infinity War. If it does really well, Peter Parker gets resurrected in Avengers 4. If it doesn't do well, good-bye Peter Parker, in the MCU, and hello Miles Morales, perhaps?

Is present day Nick Fury perma-dead? It seems a real waste for him to wink out in a psot-credits scene. But they might have done that because SLJ's final MCU movie will be Captain Marvel, in which he will play a significant supporting role. I do like how he had amped up 90's tech as the alert for Captain Marvel. I assume he thinks he's paging Mar'Vell, though we'll see I guess. I assume Carol Danvers won't get her cosmic powers until after she leaves Earth, which should mean Fury gets the uber-pager from Mar'Vell. Speaking of Captin Marvel, I hope we get to see Agent Carter in that movie too.

 

 

*Unless I actually agree with taking out half the lives in the universe, for the greater good; in which case get outta my way.

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I wonder if Spiderman Homecoming 2 will take place before Infinity War. If it does really well, Peter Parker gets resurrected in Avengers 4. If it doesn't do well, good-bye Peter Parker, in the MCU, and hello Miles Morales, perhaps?

They've said Spider-man is the perfect character to lead us into phase 4 so it won't be a prequel. It may take place in some alternate timeline or something if they go that way for phase 4, but it won't take place before A4. 

[polishgenius]

30 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Is present day Nick Fury perma-dead?

No. No-one who got dusted is perma-dead. Guaranteed. Some of them might come back then re-die, but there's a reason the majority of the guys still around are the core who either are or might be leaving after the next film. Coz they're the ones who need a last hurrah and a perma-death.

[williamjm]

I saw the film today. I thought it did a great job of balancing all the different characters and plotlines, and they managed to keep up a good pace that meant the film didn't really feel as long as it actually was. It's very easy for these massive event movies to fall flat (see Age of Ultron or Justice League), so I think it's great work by the directors. I enjoyed it a lot, I think I'd agree with Mormont's post that it's probably not quite up there with the very best of the MCU films, but it's not too far off. I thought the end was very effective, for all the things they've done well the MCU films have very rarely managed any sort of surprise but I think the ending did manage that. I don't necessarily think that it clearly not being permanent will necessarily undercut the ending, but undoing it will have to be suitably difficult and hopefully come with high cost of its own (and be done in a way that couldn't be repeated).

On 28/04/2018 at 4:52 PM, red snow said:

There was definitely a shocked silence at the end of the screening I attended too. Feel good movie it wasn't.

There was also a lot of discussion in the cinema as people waited for the post-credits scene, as if trying to understand what they'd just seen.

On 28/04/2018 at 7:14 PM, red snow said:

I think her stock is rising with the films and TV shows she's popping up in. They'd probably have to give her a much juicier role to keep her around for Thor 4. If WB have any sense they'll give her a headline role in a birds of prey/batgirl film and poach her.

I'd watch a Valkyrie if they made one. If Chris Hemsworth doesn't want to any more it could continue the Asgard plotline without involving Thor.

On 28/04/2018 at 8:09 PM, The Number 10 said:

Also it was weird to see a street in Edinburgh that I've walked up and down so often!

It was nice to see some familiar locations. I like that they apparently had a meeting to decide how to make the background for the Vision/SW scene on Cockburn Street look like a quintessential Edinburgh scene and decided that a takeaway offering to "deep fry your kebab" was the obvious choice.

On 28/04/2018 at 3:36 PM, Maltaran said:

I remember someone saying at some point that telepaths don’t exist, but I think that was Coulson in AoS so it may not apply to the movieverse any more.

The most recent series of AoS had a (inhuman) telepath so they clearly exist in that series. It might be that Coulson hadn't encountered any back when he made that comment. 

[The Anti-Targ]

On 4/29/2018 at 6:14 AM, red snow said:

It will be an emo feels stomach punch if the only way they can undo things/wield the infinity gems is if Stark, Steve and Thor do so together (as established in GOTG - a stones destructive power can be shared) but burn out in the process. It'd probably be even more poetic if Hulk, Hawkeye and Black Widow were part of said cycle as it would truly issue in the next gen of the MCU. But I have a feeling it'll be the franchise holders not the one film/guest star avengers.

 

I think what we have seen in Infinity War is that Thor is superior in power and cosmic badassness to Thanos. Technically Thor beat Thanos (Stormbreaker beat Thanos really, but Thor weilds Stormbreaker) with the Gauntlet, so without the gauntlet Thor>Thanos. Thanos kicked Thor's butt in the opening scene, because Thor can't really go full Odin force in a confined space, and Thor is still emotionally tied to his instrument. And since Thor can take a concentrated blast of dying neutron star in the face I think he can handle an infinity stone.

So if people are going to have to sacrifice to use some infinity stones to get some characters back, I don't think Thor would be among them.

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

They've said Spider-man is the perfect character to lead us into phase 4 so it won't be a prequel. It may take place in some alternate timeline or something if they go that way for phase 4, but it won't take place before A4. 

I don't think that means HC2 will necessarily be contiguous with the timeline. Though when is HC2 supposed to happen in relation to Avengers 4? If it's after Avengers 4 (i.e. after PP is resurrected) then it will be contiguous. But if it's before Avengers 4, it will have to be pre-Infinity War.

42 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

No. No-one who got dusted is perma-dead. Guaranteed. Some of them might come back then re-die, but there's a reason the majority of the guys still around are the core who either are or might be leaving after the next film. Coz they're the ones who need a last hurrah and a perma-death.

I guess it'd be hard to explain how not everyone is resurrected if they re-materialise some characters but not others.

What happened to Shuri? She fell out of her lab. I guess Vision caught her and she landed safely. I don't remember seeing her in the dusting scenes. She either died from the fall or is still alive, I think.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

2 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

One possibility is Thanos sees himself as benevolent and fair. Maybe the reason he didn't kill anyone he didn't have to was due to him leaving it up to his rapture.

I think Thanos' motivations were almost religious. He killed Gamora, but that was for his "greater good." ...

Agreed, I think they did a good job of showing Thanos is not killing because he wants or likes to kill, he's doing it because he feels he has to. It's his self-imposed duty. And one of the reasons this is one of the best superhero films (Possibly top 5--gotta re-watch it before I go that bold with my love for Infinity War) is that by the end of the film you realize the villain was the protagonist of this film all along. It even had that "happy ending" with Thanos smiling at a sunset. His job was done--the universe was saved. That perspective definitely will make for interesting multiple viewings of this film.

[RumHam]

9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think what we have seen in Infinity War is that Thor is superior in power and cosmic badassness to Thanos. Technically Thor beat Thanos (Stormbreaker beat Thanos really, but Thor weilds Stormbreaker) with the Gauntlet, so without the gauntlet Thor>Thanos. Thanos kicked Thor's butt in the opening scene, because Thor can't really go full Odin force in a confined space, and Thor is still emotionally tied to his instrument. And since Thor can take a concentrated blast of dying neutron star in the face I think he can handle an infinity stone.

[snip]

What happened to Shuri? She fell out of her lab. I guess Vision caught her and she landed safely. I don't remember seeing her in the dusting scenes. She either died from the fall or is still alive, I think.

Agreed on Thor. It hasn't been established by my head-canon is that the reason Thanos is doing this now is he was waiting for Odin to die. And Odin told Thor he was more powerful than Odin.

I hope Shuri and M'baku are both still alive and they find a bit of time for some Wakanda throne drama in the next one.

[Spring Bass]

I liked it, but it felt more like an under-developed Thanos movie than an Avengers film, since Thanos is the villain protagonist of it who drives the whole thing. Maybe they should have focused more on Thanos for it, since the character beats with the Avengers (aside from the humorous ones) come across a bit flat (although admittedly I've never been interested in the Vision-Scarlet Witch romance). 

Honestly, the character I thought of the most in comparison was Light Yagami from Death Note. Both are genocidal madmen who think they're well-intentioned extremists with the noblest of goals. 

32 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

It even had that "happy ending" with Thanos smiling at a sunset. His job was done--the universe was saved.

Hell, it even had the whole "Thanos will return" in the credits, like what they did with the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. 

[WarGalley]

6 hours ago, Denvek said:

My prediction for the next one is that Captain America is going to sacrifice himself at the Soul Stone planet as part of the plan to bring back the people who died at the end of this one. Why else have Red Skull as the guardian? If we're not seeing that planet again then it would have been Ronan as the guardian for the connection with Thanos and Gamora, but having Red Skull there and not having him meet Cap in Part II would be a massive letdown.

I've been wondering why Red Skull of all characters would be placed there. It would make a lot of sense to have a final Red Skull - Steve Rodgers interaction especially if Steve permanently dies (and I never felt there relationship developed to the level that it should have given they are archenemies). Red Skull could have similar interpersonal conversation and insight about Steve as Thanos and Gamora. Would be a great way to send Captain America off along with the sacrifice of his life.

I'm looking forward to a bittersweet tribute to the characters that permanently die. I hope they don't rush it. I'm trying to think of something in my childhood that might compare and all I can think of is Luke watching his father's cremation at the end of Return of the Jedi. Marvel can seriously top that for this generation's kids. 

 

[The Anti-Targ]

Given Red Skull is no longer trapped as the guardian of the Soul Stone (who was doing it for the eons beforehand I wonder? the last person to be sucked into the Tesseract?) I wonder if he'll get back to Earth and start to get Hydra re-organised.

3 hours ago, RumHam said:

Agreed on Thor. It hasn't been established by my head-canon is that the reason Thanos is doing this now is he was waiting for Odin to die. And Odin told Thor he was more powerful than Odin.

Yeah, I don't see Thanos getting in Asgard to steal the Tesseract. So until Ragnarok, his ambitions to complete the gauntlet had to go on hold.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

4 hours ago, Fall Bass said:

I liked it, but it felt more like an under-developed Thanos movie than an Avengers film, since Thanos is the villain protagonist of it who drives the whole thing... (although admittedly I've never been interested in the Vision-Scarlet Witch romance)...Hell, it even had the whole "Thanos will return" in the credits, like what they did with the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. 

Yes, I forgot all about that tag at the very end. Absolutely right. And I agree the Witch/Vision romance was never something I was crazy for in the comics and it was probably the least interesting aspect of the film for me.

[mormont]

10 hours ago, RumHam said:

That's a good point I hadn't considered. I was even thinking it was a shame they wouldn't get to share the screen again and now I really hope they do. 

Ronan is dead, I figured Red Skull was alive and was just teleported there by the tesseract. Though I did not consider how he was still alive after all this time without being frozen. 

I don't know if Red Skull is dead, exactly, but he didn't look like he was alive in the standard sense, did he? 

[The Winged Shadow]

19 hours ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

Everyone else has talked about the dusting thing so I won't bother.

As I predicted from the trailers, I was bothered that Thanos didn't just explode anyone who tried fighting him. He has the power to destroy planets and throw moons thanks to the gauntlet, but somehow Iron Man can withstand some of the purple laser by using a shield? Why could Captain America hold him back? Thanos himself looked surprised so maybe it's something to do with the gauntlet not working as well as it could for him because he's evil, which would be a bit lame tbh. I realise that there wouldn't be much of a film if he just exploded everyone immediately, but it bugged me. Maybe he was just toying with Iron Man. Speaking of which...

Just because Thanos can destroy planets doesn't mean he puts/can put the same amount of 'power' in a lasers he shoots at Iron Man. I think of it as the stone allows Thanos to increase the scale of destruction (i.e. planetary scale) but not necessarily put huge magnitude of power in a concentrated attack (i.e. laser beams). Otherwise, as you've said, he'd blow everyone up in a few seconds and the end.

Also, why shouldn't Captain America hold him back? He literally has only one power, and that is his super strength. I don't think it was weird at all that he could hold his own against Thanos in a purely strength v strength scenario.

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There's other holes to pick, such as why Doctor Strange decided to wait until they were on Titan to have a look at the future, rather than looking when they were deciding to go back to Earth or not. Didn't buy Thanos loving Gamora really, but it was nicely handled in the moment.

I don't think it would've mattered at all because, presumably, this the only timeline where the Avengers win. So even if he looked at the future, everything would have to play out exactly as it did in the movie for this to be the successful timeline.

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Why did Strange not use the time stone to trap Thanos like he did Dormamu (however you spell it)?

Because Thanos would just keep Strage alive so as to not trigger the loop? or use the reality/mind stone to trick him? He could just avoid Strange until he gathers the other stones.

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We found it weird that Scarlet Witch and Vision struggled with the black order people, but the significantly less powerful Cap, Falcon and Black Widow trashed them immediately.

2v2 vs 2v5. Seemed obvious why they won - outnumbered them and teamwork. Not sure why you think Cap is significantly less powerful? I can understand Black Widow and Falcon to an extent, but Cap?

[Corvinus85]

How did Hela know that the gauntlet in the vault was fake? Hela had been imprisoned in some dimension for thousands of years, and if Thanos only finished the gauntlet around Age of Ultron time... Did the Dwarves make such a thing before?

[mormont]

1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

How did Hela know that the gauntlet in the vault was fake? Hela had been imprisoned in some dimension for thousands of years, and if Thanos only finished the gauntlet around Age of Ultron time... Did the Dwarves make such a thing before?

Presumably, Hela can tell genuine dwarf workmanship. 

[polishgenius]

16 minutes ago, The Winged Shadow said:

 

Also, why shouldn't Captain America hold him back?

Because Thanos is stronger than Hulk and Hulk is exponentially stronger than Cap is.

 

Similarly:

16 minutes ago, The Winged Shadow said:

Not sure why you think Cap is significantly less powerful? I can understand Black Widow and Falcon to an extent, but Cap?

 

I think you're over-estimating how strong/powerful Cap is. In the comics he doesn't even really have super-strength I don't think- he's just essentially peak-human-ability at everything all the time. The film looks like it's borrowed from the Ultimate universe where his strength and durability is a little enhanced, but he's never shown to be massively ahead of human scale.

The three of them do have the advantage over SW and Vision though that they're all combat-trained.

[Mosi Mynn]

I think Cap was able to hold Thanos (briefly) because Thanos was not expecting it.  Cap was giving his all and Thanos looked a little bewildered as to how this man was managing to hold him.  He dealt with Cap pretty easily after that.  Although Cap did survive being punched in the face by Thanos with nary a broken bone - I think Cap's superpower is that he's infused with pure awesomeness.