U.S. Politics: If Trump Is In Attendance, The Next Protest Should Be A Roman Salute

[DanteGabriel]

5 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Trump and his administration have finally brought the hope of diplomacy between the U.S. and North Korea.  Yet even on the night of this momentous occasion, Trump's detractors still want to pooh-pooh the event by making their daily cliché Trump jokes.  These people remind me of the idiots who wouldn't give kudos to Obama after bin-Laden was taken out in 2011.  Can't stand the people who treat politics like sports.  Only want to cheer when their team is leading.

Maybe we should wait until Trump actually accomplishes something with this meeting?

As it is, he's already given Kim a major concession by agreeing to meet with him as an equal, which is something the North Korean regime has long sought to legitimize themselves. Previous administrations sent diplomats or the Secretary of State. Funny that Mr. Art of the Deal gave in on something like that right off the bat. It's almost like he has no clue what he's doing.

[TheKitttenGuard]

1 hour ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Trump and his administration have finally brought the hope of diplomacy between the U.S. and North Korea.  Yet even on the night of this momentous occasion, Trump's detractors still want to pooh-pooh the event by making their daily cliché Trump jokes.  These people remind me of the idiots who wouldn't give kudos to Obama after bin-Laden was taken out in 2011.  Can't stand the people who treat politics like sports.  Only want to cheer when their team is leading.

Many who are cheering this moment of Diplomacy were cheering when Trump turn back on Diplomacy with Iran.

The meeting is not the hard part.

Still want the best for the tens of millions of lives on the Korean Pennisula. 

[TrueMetis]

16 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Trump called Canada a US security risk in conversation with Trudeau. When Trudeau asked how Trump could hold that view, Trump incorrectly cited 1812. People are unsure if he was joking or not, and which way would be worse.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html

So Canada is a security risk because the U.S. might be tempted to invade us again. Joke or not that's really dumb.

[LongRider]

10 hours ago, Guy Kilmore said:

The Supreme Court Upheld Ohio's voter-purge law.  I wouldn't mind it if there was an easy option for same day registration.  Without it, I don't like the idea of people losing their right to vote because of bureaucracy.

 

ETA:  The court conservatives even used the same debunked study that the White House was trotting around a while ago.

 

Thanks for posting.   Really hate the decision.  McTurtle must be really proud of hisself. 

[James Arryn]

9 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

So Canada is a security risk because the U.S. might be tempted to invade us again. Joke or not that's really dumb.

Yes. Yes, it is.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Dennis Rodman on CNN thanking Eddie Vedder (along with Chuck Daly, Phil Jackson, and Genie Bus) is the whole highlight for me.

 

[LongRider]

My understanding is that the prez has the power to put tariffs in place if the Prez determines that there is some sort of security risk to the country with the trade as it is.  Otherwise, normal legislative processes would have to be put in place.  

So by claiming that the restrictions Canada has placed on certain types of dairy protein is a huge security risk (and one that Obummer obviously missed being too busy playing golf and whatnot) he placed tariffs without going to the Congress/Senate.

So I guess we should all appreciate how Tantrum Baby Man has made American dairy cows safer from Canadians.  I feel more secure all the time.

 

 

not

[JGP]

Though not included in the *original NAFTA negotiations, from what I understand the Canadian milk tariffs were to be addressed in the TPP, which Trump nixed. The Security Threat bullshit is just a way for Trump to end run congress, and the GOP will only pretend to care if all tariffs [back and forth] start seriously impacting trade before November. Otherwise... [spreads hands]

Kudlow just had a heart attack though, so it's only a matter of time before Trump starts suffering paranoid night sweats about Canadian sleeper agents.

The President of the United States... is a fucking goof.  Unreal.  

 

ETA: *

[LongRider]

34 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

The Security Threat bullshit is just a way for Trump to end run congress, and the GOP will only pretend to care if all tariffs [back and forth] start seriously impacting trade before November. Otherwise... [spreads hands]

Yup.  Maybe the security threat thing had a real purpose once, but now that its been gamed by 45 it will always be treated like the silly bullshit he's turned it into. 

[TheKitttenGuard]

So, can we start talking about getting back to diplomacy with Cuba and Iran as well?

[Yukle]

2 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

So Canada is a security risk because the U.S. might be tempted to invade us again. Joke or not that's really dumb.

The scorecard is 1-0 Canada. Given Drumpf's current (lack of) leadership, the Canucks can probably manage to make it 2-0.

[Fragile Bird]

I have to admit I actually laughed out loud when I saw the stories about Kudlow having a heart attack. Not a ‘that’s funny’ lol, but a ‘people told you not to take the job, Larry’ karma-kinda lol.

My best wishes for a complete recovery.

[mormont]

6 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Trump and his administration have finally brought the hope of diplomacy between the U.S. and North Korea.  Yet even on the night of this momentous occasion, Trump's detractors still want to pooh-pooh the event by making their daily cliché Trump jokes.  These people remind me of the idiots who wouldn't give kudos to Obama after bin-Laden was taken out in 2011.  Can't stand the people who treat politics like sports.  Only want to cheer when their team is leading.

I think the issue here is that you (and likely Trump) misunderstand why diplomacy between the US and North Korea wasn't already happening. The hope of it always existed: the potential and willingness was always there. It wasn't that previous Presidents weren't able, or even that they weren't willing, to enter into that process. It was that, at that time, they considered it unwise.

Trump, of course, is perfectly happy to do things that are unwise so long as he thinks there's something in it for him: and maybe that, in this instance, will ultimately prove to be a good thing. He has also benefited from the fact that (for reasons entirely unrelated to his policies) the situation in the Korean peninsula has shifted somewhat. 

Is this a momentous occasion? Only time will tell. Both North Korea and Trump have a record of making commitments and then walking away from those commitments when they become inconvenient, and the actual commitments announced here could hardly be less concrete. So a wait-and-see approach to that question is justified. 

[Which Tyler]

When asked about what was "agreed" to but not signed...

"I don't have to verify because I have one of the greatest memories of all time"

[felice]

18 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

"I don't have to verify because I have one of the greatest memories of all time"

Yes, I'm sure he can't recall even a single occasion when he forgot something.

[Errant Bard]

22 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

When asked about what was "agreed" to but not signed...

"I don't have to verify because I have one of the greatest memories of all time"

You cannot be serious.

[Relic]

8 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Trump and his administration have finally brought the hope of diplomacy between the U.S. and North Korea.  Yet even on the night of this momentous occasion, Trump's detractors still want to pooh-pooh the event by making their daily cliché Trump jokes.  These people remind me of the idiots who wouldn't give kudos to Obama after bin-Laden was taken out in 2011.  Can't stand the people who treat politics like sports.  Only want to cheer when their team is leading.

Orrrrrr...

While it's great to have some potentially productive dialogue with an adversary, it it quite disconcerting to see Trump disparage and alienate allies while lauding authoritarians. You can argue that now isn't the greatest time to bring up the millions of North Koreans killed in labor camps over the last few decades, or the beyond brutal oppression of the regime in general, but these are facts that need to be addressed, immediately. However POTUS is up on stage with a murderous lunatic while smiling like the cat who ate the canary. It's....unsettling. 

[Horza]

50 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

When asked about what was "agreed" to but not signed...

"I don't have to verify because I have one of the greatest memories of all time"

It's perfect.

1 hour ago, La Albearceleste said:

I think the issue here is that you (and likely Trump) misunderstand why diplomacy between the US and North Korea wasn't already happening. The hope of it always existed: the potential and willingness was always there. It wasn't that previous Presidents weren't able, or even that they weren't willing, to enter into that process. It was that, at that time, they considered it unwise.

Trump, of course, is perfectly happy to do things that are unwise so long as he thinks there's something in it for him: and maybe that, in this instance, will ultimately prove to be a good thing. He has also benefited from the fact that (for reasons entirely unrelated to his policies) the situation in the Korean peninsula has shifted somewhat. 

Is this a momentous occasion? Only time will tell. Both North Korea and Trump have a record of making commitments and then walking away from those commitments when they become inconvenient, and the actual commitments announced here could hardly be less concrete. So a wait-and-see approach to that question is justified. 

To piggyback on this: talks stalled out because previous agreements kept breaking down. The agreements kept breaking down because they were vague, and they were vague because the DPRK wouldn't budge on its preferred terminology, particularly 'denuclearisation' which doesn't exist in diplomatic language outside of the Korean Peninsula, cos it doesn't mean anything. As a result, no one was interested in face-to-face meetings with senior US and DPRK officials - much less heads of state - until phrases like 'denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula' and 'cessation of [the US's] hostile policy' had been hammered into specific actions with a timeline and a concrete delineation of responsibility for those actions. They knew full well that Kims I-III desperately want the status boost of a head of state summit, and so they kept it as leverage.

But, ok. Trump is a special guy. Some would say a visionary. He's not bound by stuffy old rules and hidebound conventions. Maybe he can King Ralph this process into action. Let's see how he did: 

Quote

1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.

2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.

3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work towards complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Oof.

1. Is the most mother-y motherhood statement since apple pie gave birth to freedom, puppies and baseball. There's not even a timetable for when they're supposed to set up these new relations, much less what diplomatic outlets will be reopened.

2. Great. What does that mean?

3. The best one. 'Uh... what Moon and he said'. After six weeks of bluster about verification and Libya the DPRK position hasn't. budged. an. inch.

4. Sound the actionable item klaxon! This clause has a time frame and a defined objective. It's a DPRK concession, and hopefully it will further the diplomatic process. 

With the exception of 4. all of these are incredibly vague, they are open for both parties to define as they see fit. Trump took one of his biggest negotiating carrots and traded it for an entry-level confidence measure.

This isn't the disaster some are making it out to be. Talking is better than war. John Bolton didn't spike the process. North Korea is not giving up its nuclear weapons and if these goofy scenes are part of the process of getting America to live with that, so be it. Anyone who hand-wrings about legitimisation of a brutal regime is admitting they don't want diplomacy at all, and that's crazy. But by any measure, Trump just got played.

[Inigima]

The US will cease military drills with South Korea. It's unclear what North Korea will do in return or whether they will hold to any agreement; theoretically they will commit to denuclearization, but there are no terms or timetable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-kim-summit-trump-says-we-have-developed-a-very-special-bond-at-end-of-historic-meeting/2018/06/12/ff43465a-6dba-11e8-bf86-a2351b5ece99_story.html?utm_term=.fb54bfd848a0

If this works it will be a great thing, but nothing about this makes me super confident at this juncture.

 

 

[Horza]

2 minutes ago, Don Inigima said:

The US will cease military drills with South Korea. It's unclear what North Korea will do in return or whether they will hold to any agreement; theoretically they will commit to denuclearization, but there are no terms or timetable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-kim-summit-trump-says-we-have-developed-a-very-special-bond-at-end-of-historic-meeting/2018/06/12/ff43465a-6dba-11e8-bf86-a2351b5ece99_story.html?utm_term=.fb54bfd848a0

If this works it will be a great thing, but nothing about this makes me super confident at this juncture.

 

 

This stuff is also the best. America's Special Guy is blabbing out the stuff he and Kim talked about in their one-on-one session but none of it is in writing, and the stuff that is in writing is too vague to hold Kim to. So now he's made a pledge to freeze exercises in exchange for...

I mean, a testing freeze in exchange for an exercise freeze is good, and I hope it sticks, but this guy is burning up diplomatic capital on the tasting menu.