U.S. Politics: Self Medicating

[DMC]

51 minutes ago, TheMightyKC said:

The guy from Morning Joe seems like a good guy I don't think he killed anyone.

Scarborough's staffer dying in his office is a very very old conspiracy theory.  I remember left-leaning people using it against him back in the days of Scarborough Country.

[Mexal]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Scarborough's staffer dying in his office is a very very old conspiracy theory.  I remember left-leaning people using it against him back in the days of Scarborough Country.

It's also been heavily investigated and declared an accident. Scarborough wasn't even in Florida when she died and had already announced his retirement a month earlier. Trump is fucking with a family Seth Rich style, accusing someone of murder with less than zero proof and no one gives a fuck. I hate this timeline so much.

[Tywin et al.]

Trump's relationship with Joe and Mika shows just how rotten he is (and they're questionable people themselves, but I still put them on in the morning). You could not have found more reliable friends than them in "the liberal media," and the moment they stopped being helpful he threw them to the wind and sought to hurt and embarrass them at any turn.

What a pathetic, petty man. 

[Zorral]

Where's the beef leadership?  I mean, really wtf has he been doing for months and months and months in that basement bunker?

"Biden’s Online Campaign Is Still Loading
As Trump hogs the cameras, the homebound presumptive nominee’s video presence is a limbo of “virtual rallies,” glitches and … birds."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/arts/television/biden-campaign.html

 

[Jace, Extat]

9 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Where's the beef leadership?  I mean, really wtf has he been doing for months and months and months in that basement bunker?

"Biden’s Online Campaign Is Still Loading
As Trump hogs the cameras, the homebound presumptive nominee’s video presence is a limbo of “virtual rallies,” glitches and … birds."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/arts/television/biden-campaign.html

 

Umm, letting Donnie be the face of the virus is a pretty easy to grasp political strategy. This is getting stale.

[butterbumps!]

4 hours ago, DMC said:

I don't know what the gorilla channel is or referring to.

I didn’t know what this was either.  I couldn’t stand waiting for the explanation any longer so I looked it up, and of course there’s a Vox explainer on it.  

It’s apparently a parody of the Wolff book “bombshell” tweets, breaking (fabricated) news that a channel featuring 24/7 gorillas was created to play in the White House to keep Trump amused.  I guess people fell for it?   I mean, idk if believing this is a thing is really a sign of profound credulity, though.  Like, he’s on camera speculating about the efficacy of UV enemas.

[Tywin et al.]

Man, I need to remember to read threads fully before responding.

@DMC, that was as hilarious as it was savage. 

I do like @mcbigski though, if not because I try to extend the best to people (and you have been an awful troll, dude, you're better than that).

But mcbigski and I compete in a Pick'em league that I run, and I fear that is probably going to get all kinds of fucked up now. 

[DanteGabriel]

11 hours ago, Stannis Cool-Ranchus said:

If Bernie Sanders went on the Breakfast Club and said "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black" during the primary there would be a non-stop barrage of headlines "Does Bernie Sanders Understand Black Voters?" "Is Bernie Sanders Out of Touch?" "Bernie Sanders: Racist?"

But when the corporate-backed presumptive nominee does it then it becomes a right-wing talking point. Oh and leaning towards Amy Klobuchar as the VP has not endeared me towards the idea of voting for Biden.

I thought Biden's remarks were dumb and I've had plenty of criticisms about the "product of his time" understanding he has of race in America, but it must really sting that this corporate-backed creature of the crime bill/"super predator" era of the Democratic Party still trounced Bernie with black voters. Seriously, how much of a fucking failure is Bernie that he couldn't improve his numbers at all with black primary voters in the four years since Hillary "super-predators" Clinton bounced his ass from the primaries? At some point you have to question why Bernie failed instead of why Biden won. And please come up with something besides some far-reaching conspiracy from the DNC, who can't even plot their way out of a wet paper bag.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

35 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I thought Biden's remarks were dumb and I've had plenty of criticisms about the "product of his time" understanding he has of race in America, but it must really sting that this corporate-backed creature of the crime bill/"super predator" era of the Democratic Party still trounced Bernie with black voters. Seriously, how much of a fucking failure is Bernie that he couldn't improve his numbers at all with black primary voters in the four years since Hillary "super-predators" Clinton bounced his ass from the primaries? At some point you have to question why Bernie failed instead of why Biden won. And please come up with something besides some far-reaching conspiracy from the DNC, who can't even plot their way out of a wet paper bag.

It seems pretty reasonable to say the problem isn't Bernie, but Democrats in general if they were willing to choose Biden over literally anyone else running. Biden is a symptom of the sickness within Democrats.

[Martell Spy]

24 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

It seems pretty reasonable to say the problem isn't Bernie, but Democrats in general if they were willing to choose Biden over literally anyone else running. Biden is a symptom of the sickness within Democrats.

Biden won through a combination of older voters liking him, moderate Democrats, young people not voting in enough numbers, and voters terrified of Trump winning. I fail to see how any of that is a sickness in the party. The last probably tipped it. People have very good reason to be afraid.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Simon Steele said:

It seems pretty reasonable to say the problem isn't Bernie, but Democrats in general if they were willing to choose Biden over literally anyone else running. Biden is a symptom of the sickness within Democrats.

Saying the problem is with the voters instead of the candidate is a good way to carry moral certitude into a long period of political powerlessness.

[dbergkvist]

30 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Saying the problem is with the voters instead of the candidate is a good way to carry moral certitude into a long period of political powerlessness.

But if the voters are politically powerless, doesn't that point to the DNC as the culprit, after all? I would say that the party is morally responsible for ensuring that the voters are not powerless.

[ThinkerX]

2 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Biden won through a combination of older voters liking him, moderate Democrats, young people not voting in enough numbers, and voters terrified of Trump winning. I fail to see how any of that is a sickness in the party. The last probably tipped it. People have very good reason to be afraid.

and what happens to mindsets behind that coalition when Biden drops dead eight or ten months into his term? (a very real possibility that older democrats and those driven by fear are deliberately ignoring).  There is also the matter of Biden's mental decline and tendency towards ridiculous statements and outright lies - also deliberately overlooked.  Plus, to me, it seems that Biden will put the  'establishment' above the national interests - perpetuating an oligarchic system that fails miserably when confronted with crises.

Which is why the choice of VP is so crucial.  

[GrimTuesday]

3 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I thought Biden's remarks were dumb and I've had plenty of criticisms about the "product of his time" understanding he has of race in America, but it must really sting that this corporate-backed creature of the crime bill/"super predator" era of the Democratic Party still trounced Bernie with black voters. Seriously, how much of a fucking failure is Bernie that he couldn't improve his numbers at all with black primary voters in the four years since Hillary "super-predators" Clinton bounced his ass from the primaries? At some point you have to question why Bernie failed instead of why Biden won. And please come up with something besides some far-reaching conspiracy from the DNC, who can't even plot their way out of a wet paper bag.

I don't get why you're bringing Bernie up here unless you're trying to start a fight.

Sure, the DNC can't plot their way out of a wet paper bag when it comes to stopping the Republicans, clearly, but if you look historically, they have done a fine job sabotaging the left. Turns out it is actually pretty fucking hard to win elections when you're being attacked by your allies using the same attacks that your common enemies use. Couple that with the corporate media who know that a raising left puts their profits in some degree of peril, and you are suddenly fighting a two front war. This is of course only part of the reason why Bernie lost.

Even leaving that aside, it is super fucking obvious why Bernie lost and Biden won, same reason why Biden probably would have beaten any of the rest of the field one on one. First off, he has the benefit of name recognition, he has been a very well known figure in American politics for the last 30 years, Name recognition alone is a strong advantage. Of course, when that name recognition comes couple with association with an extremely popular president, that advantage is further amplified. The second reason is because as was already stated, a lot of people are scared and when you are scared, you want to be comforted, you want to feel safe, and is what Biden was running on. A significant percentage of the population associate the Obama years as being a safe time when they didn't have to fear their president was a mad man, and having someone who you know and trust saying he's going to take you back there sounds very appealing.

We know that Biden did not win on the strength of his platform, his voters were not voting ideologically. The policies that Bernie was calling for are broadly popular, but humans tend to address the immediate problem rather than thinking in the long term.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, dbergkvist said:

But if the voters are politically powerless, doesn't that point to the DNC as the culprit, after all? I would say that the party is morally responsible for ensuring that the voters are not powerless.

How does the voters preferring Biden over Sanders et al show that the voters are politically powerless?

[dbergkvist]

40 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

First off, he has the benefit of name recognition, he has been a very well known figure in American politics for the last 30 years, Name recognition alone is a strong advantage. Of course, when that name recognition comes couple with association with an extremely popular president, that advantage is further amplified. The second reason is because as was already stated, a lot of people are scared and when you are scared, you want to be comforted, you want to feel safe, and is what Biden was running on. A significant percentage of the population associate the Obama years as being a safe time when they didn't have to fear their president was a mad man, and having someone who you know and trust saying he's going to take you back there sounds very appealing.

Sounds like Obama should have appointed someone else to be his VP, then, so that person would have received the name recognition instead. Someone younger, who doesn't have the baggage that Biden has. Thanks, Obama. You doomed us all.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

Saying the problem is with the voters instead of the candidate is a good way to carry moral certitude into a long period of political powerlessness.

Well, the poster you were responding to was making a point about why Bernie may not have done as well against someone like Biden. It's how the media would cover him versus how it now covers Biden. Bernie was nitpicked about comments from the early 80s, and the media just rolled in that. Biden gets a lot of apology or "Why Biden's Record Doesn't Matter: Explained" type of shit. I suppose I can't lay this at the feet of the voters as media is a powerful method of persuasion, and I'm no more immune to it than anyone else. 

[Freshwater Spartan]

1 hour ago, dbergkvist said:

Sounds like Obama should have appointed someone else to be his VP, then, so that person would have received the name recognition instead. Someone younger, who doesn't have the baggage that Biden has. Thanks, Obama. You doomed us all.

Similarly, this why I hope Biden doesn't pick Warren as much as I like her. She was young enough (barely) to be President but way too old to be VP.

As for your other point, Obama will go down as one of the most intellectually gifted, morally upright and politically incompetent Presidents ever. Fewer Presidents have lead their party so poorly in the purpose of winning elections at all levels and passing legislation that would stand the test of time. Future historians will be comparing Carter with Obama on these points challenging each other on who was worse. 

I loved Obama  but he absolutely gutted the Democratic party. 

[Fury Resurrected]

25 minutes ago, Freshwater Spartan said:

Similarly, this why I hope Biden doesn't pick Warren as much as I like her. She was young enough (barely) to be President but way too old to be VP.

As for your other point, Obama will go down as one of the most intellectually gifted, morally upright and politically incompetent Presidents ever. Fewer Presidents have lead their party so poorly in the purpose of winning elections at all levels and passing legislation that would stand the test of time. Future historians will be comparing Carter with Obama on these points challenging each other on who was worse. 

I loved Obama  but he absolutely gutted the Democratic party. 

I have a lot of gripes with Obama,  But- his name on the ballot got democrats both houses of Congress. And the ACA, while a poor excuse for healthcare reform overall was huge in that it protected people with preexisting conditions. As one of those people- it is life saving, life changing, the single most impactful for me piece of legislation passed in my lifetime. There are a lot more of us than you think and thousands more of us still alive today because of that bill.

[GrimTuesday]

1 hour ago, dbergkvist said:

Sounds like Obama should have appointed someone else to be his VP, then, so that person would have received the name recognition instead. Someone younger, who doesn't have the baggage that Biden has. Thanks, Obama. You doomed us all.

Biden was a fine pick for the time, in fact, back then what we consider his baggage now, was actually considered something of a strength. A lot of people feared what would happen if a black person where to become president, Biden's appeal back then was that he would act as a counter balance to the, let's face it, racist feelings that the many white Americans feel. Kind of like when a company hires a minority to shut up those who would call them racist, Biden was a diversity hire.