US Politics: In A Hypocritical Condition

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Reverse order quoting:

4 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

His bit about lying, re: Trump wasn't and isn't on oxygen, was particularly pathetic as well.

 

 

"I didn't want to give any information"

20 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Okay, did I miss something or did Conley say that they gave Trump dexamethasone???

And he totally dodged the question about damage to the lungs or heart. 

The first quote probably serves as a guide, TGU.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

35 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Get over it, seriously. I have legitimate problems with Biden and the Democratic party precisely because I fear they could still lose. Quit attributing your malfunctioning schema onto me.

Irony much?

You started this nonsense, by claiming Biden lacked political courage to not go after Trump now, the way Omar did. If he acted the way you suggested, he wouldn't have made it out of the primaries. Thus my quip about we'd be having candidate Bernie now, instead of Biden. In other words, you've made an asinine point and decided to go after Biden with it.

Like @DMC and I pointed out, Biden is running for President of the US [and not just Minnesota's fifth district], thus he has to keep an eye on the broader electorate. Again, instead of raging about Biden's lack of political courage, maybe spend a second on thinking why he doesn't do it. You fear Dems might balls this up, so your tactical advice is, to balls things up on purpose.

[Mexal]

12 minutes ago, Fez said:

Right?! Like, I haven't been staying on top of the latest COVID research, but IIRC dexamethasone is straight up harmful when used as a COVID precautionary measure or for mild cases. It's only for serious cases.

They're being cagey about the lung scans and they said his oxygen level never dropped into the "low 80s". Trump is not doing well and they're clearly worried about the early signs, hence the dexamethasone. Next week is going to be big, days 7-10 are when serious downturns seem to happen.

[Kalbear]

I will be somewhat amused if trumps doctor of osteopathy who was chosen mostly for looks ends up killing trump because of his incompetence and inability to tell trump how to take care of himself.

[Kalbear]

Also on the biden not going as hard as Omar - the whole point is that Biden doesn't have to because he has surrogates like Omar. He doesn't have to be the one spreading that message - he can and does have others doing it for him and doing it well. People like Simon who have that rage will find that message just fine. 

[Maithanet]

Still waiting on news of the second Biden test.  He's getting tested today, not clear when.  Given how many people got sick at the debate, it's a pretty fucking big deal.

[DanteGabriel]

The Republican Party's intellectual standing, presented in one tweet:

 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

2 minutes ago, Kalibear said:

Also on the biden not going as hard as Omar - the whole point is that Biden doesn't have to because he has surrogates like Omar. He doesn't have to be the one spreading that message - he can and does have others doing it for him and doing it well. People like Simon who have that rage will find that message just fine. 

I don't live in the US so don't really know what I'm talking about, but I assume as well as trying to win some normally or sometimes Republican voters he also needs to look after those Dem voters who stayed home last time.  One would think that acting a dick and not wishing Trump a full and speedy recovery doesn't really help you show you are not just as bad a Trump thus showing they actually have a choice and its worth bothering to vote.

 

there are loads of people pointing out Trumps disregards for Covid and how its all his fault He doesn't need to and can at least wait to find out if Trump survives.

[All Cats Are Bad]

1 hour ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

he also needs to look after those Dem voters who stayed home last time.

The Democrat establishment would legit rather have a second Trump term than give these people anything. I don't care who it is in 2024, Cruz, Trump, reanimated Hitler, I don't care what kind of abomination the GOP manages to cattle-prod to center stage next time, I'm not fucking voting for Kamala Harris, or Michelle Obama, or whatever other empty-suit filled with Super PAC money they stuff into a dashiki and try to shove down our throats.

Just fucking vote for Alexandria OC in the primary next time, because this is the last time of my life I'm voting for one of these people, and I promise the next Republican will be worse.

[Lollygag]

6 minutes ago, SaltyGnosis said:

The Democrat establishment would legit rather have a second Trump term than give these people anything. I don't care who it is in 2020, Cruz, Trump, reanimated Hitler, I don't care what kind of abomination the GOP manages to cattle-prod to center stage next time, I'm not fucking voting for Kamala Harris, or Michelle Obama, or whatever other empty-suit filled with Super PAC money they stuff into a dashiki and try to shove down our throats.

Just fucking vote for Alexandria OC in the primary next time, because this is the last time of my life I'm voting for one of these people, and I promise the next Republican will be worse.

There are no more real elections after this one if Trump wins.

[Raja]

57 minutes ago, Fez said:

Right?! Like, I haven't been staying on top of the latest COVID research, but IIRC dexamethasone is straight up harmful when used as a COVID precautionary measure or for mild cases. It's only for serious cases.

I think terminology such as 'mild' or 'serious' isn't helpful. When we look at the actual results from the recovery trial - found here - Dexamethasone was found to be beneficial in any patient that needed oxygen - and Trump falls in that category. To me, the decision to start Dexa is a reasonable course of action by the medical team based on the evidence.

Quote

In the dexamethasone group, the inci-dence of death was lower than that in the usual care group among patients receiving invasive mechanical ventilation (29.3% vs. 41.4%; rate ratio, 0.64; 95% CI, 0.51 to 0.81) and among those receiving oxygen without invasive mechanical ventilation (23.3% vs. 26.2%; rate ratio, 0.82; 95% CI, 0.72 to 0.94

The only time you don't start it based on evidence from the Recovery trial is those receiving no respiratory support.

Edit: Also, as an aside, the comments in here alluding to the fact that Conley is a DO and using that to sort of sneer at his capabilities as a physician are off the mark  - the DO degree affords identical rights and privileges to the MD degree. Snobbery like this does exist in some quarters of the medical field but that is also not warranted ( Criticizing Conley for other communication errors etc is totally fair game though) 

[DanteGabriel]

24 minutes ago, SaltyGnosis said:

The Democrat establishment would legit rather have a second Trump term than give these people anything. I don't care who it is in 2020, Cruz, Trump, reanimated Hitler, I don't care what kind of abomination the GOP manages to cattle-prod to center stage next time, I'm not fucking voting for Kamala Harris, or Michelle Obama, or whatever other empty-suit filled with Super PAC money they stuff into a dashiki and try to shove down our throats.

Just fucking vote for Alexandria OC in the primary next time, because this is the last time of my life I'm voting for one of these people, and I promise the next Republican will be worse.

I share your frustrations, tovarisch. Decadent Western Democracy is overrated, nyet?

[Wethers]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

By not carrying about any of that stuff. Taxes, guns, abortion, military spending, getting rid of Obamacare, conservative Supreme court for the next 20 years, at least, Freedom^(TM). It is beaten into the electorate over and over to vote on policies, so that's what people do. If voters were encouraged to only vote based on a person's character you'd probably get different people at all levels of elected govt from what you mostly get now.

I would add that, at least in the US, above and beyond all those policies, owning the libs and making them sad/mad is the single most important priority for many Republicans today.

And Trump has delivered that.

Of course most care about one or two other things too, some more focused on SCOTUS, some on taxes etc., but they would support Trump even without those.

[IheartIheartTesla]

By the way, the NBC poll showing a 14 point lead may indicate a real bounce from the debates, but these tend to be ephemeral. However, with the COVID news this week, who knows.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

By the way, the NBC poll showing a 14 point lead may indicate a real bounce from the debates, but these tend to be ephemeral. However, with the COVID news this week, who knows.

It's going to be near impossible to unwrangle the two in hindsight.  However, before the covid news, it's common for the challenger to get a boost after the first debate, and that boost usually regresses to the mean well before election day.  Just to keep in mind.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Irony much?

You started this nonsense, by claiming Biden lacked political courage to not go after Trump now, the way Omar did. If he acted the way you suggested, he wouldn't have made it out of the primaries. Thus my quip about we'd be having candidate Bernie now, instead of Biden. In other words, you've made an asinine point and decided to go after Biden with it.

Like @DMC and I pointed out, Biden is running for President of the US [and not just Minnesota's fifth district], thus he has to keep an eye on the broader electorate. Again, instead of raging about Biden's lack of political courage, maybe spend a second on thinking why he doesn't do it. You fear Dems might balls this up, so your tactical advice is, to balls things up on purpose.

I'm not following you. How is it "nonsense" to ask our political leaders to stand up to Trump. Part of Biden's "appeal" was that he would be tough with Trump. When Trump has single handedly caused so much harm (strictly speaking about his Covid response, let alone everything else), you see it as strategy to not emphasize this for those voters you think might still come from the right? I also think it's funny you think I'm raging. More eye-rolling. Project what you will on me, but what I typically see happen from you is that you use personalized attacks to compensate for not knowing how to deal directly with an argument. 

And I've spent a "second" thinking about why he didn't do it. He's taking some ideological high road that literally does nothing for him except tell all the people who already thinks he's a decent man that he is a decent man. The way Omar went against Trump was not petty, nor a rage-induced attack. It was measured, and it kept the message on what Trump has done, not his likely suffering right now. I think you have trouble seeing beyond a binary. There is a whole spectrum of replies to this beyond "attack" and "thoughts." Also, the whole "thoughts" thing is what really annoyed me. This is also an issue of Democrats unable to respond to shifts in public thinking. Every time a shooting happens, people run the politicians through the mud for saying "thoughts and prayers." This "thoughts" thing seems an attempt to circumvent that kind of public attack. It's a platitude. Biden literally said nothing, and he achieved nothing except, again, with those who love him and probably CNN and MSNBC.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, Mexal said:

They're being cagey about the lung scans and they said his oxygen level never dropped into the "low 80s". Trump is not doing well and they're clearly worried about the early signs, hence the dexamethasone. Next week is going to be big, days 7-10 are when serious downturns seem to happen.

My brother's mother-in-law is in her 70s and has an immuno-compromised condition, and she got Covid. I can't remember her oxygen levels, but when she was finally seen, they were dangerously low. They put her on oxygen and she recovered over time. It's hard to say how Trump is currently doing in terms of leaked symptoms, but I do wonder about the dexamethasone. It's a steroid--I remember when my son had Leukemia, he was on it. In terms of Covid, I've only heard that Dexamethosone has significantly positive results when patients are supported by oxygen. I wonder if this is more a thing where Trump has access to the best care, and many Americans don't. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

I don't live in the US so don't really know what I'm talking about, but I assume as well as trying to win some normally or sometimes Republican voters he also needs to look after those Dem voters who stayed home last time.  One would think that acting a dick and not wishing Trump a full and speedy recovery doesn't really help you show you are not just as bad a Trump thus showing they actually have a choice and its worth bothering to vote.

 

there are loads of people pointing out Trumps disregards for Covid and how its all his fault He doesn't need to and can at least wait to find out if Trump survives.

But the point is, Omar didn't act like a dick. It's a strawman to suggest that Biden either wishes Trump well, or wishes him dead.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

4 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

But the point is, Omar didn't act like a dick. It's a strawman to suggest that Biden either wishes Trump well, or wishes him dead.

In politics (at least in the UK) the absence of not expressing sympathy immediately after an event by default means you don't give a shit and may even be happy the event happened.  I know US politics is different for UK ones, its just something that is not done until he recovers.  Its certainly not something you do right before an election.

[All Cats Are Bad]

1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

There are no more real elections after this one if Trump wins.

We've passed that point at least a decade back, IMO. But, I agree with the sentiment.