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Gender and bathrooms


Varysblackfyre321
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I thought this particular topic could warrant its own thread about whether unisex bathrooms should be the norm.

@Lollygag

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I'm adamantly against this. I can speak from personal experience that if something happens to you once, you never feel safe again and I do not want to be trapped into a corner in a public restroom in an extremely vulnerable position with strange men around me. 1 in 6 women have experienced some form of attempted or completed sexual assault.

I acknowledge how some women who’ve experienced sexual abuse would be uncomfortable with this given a heightened expectation of privacy and with it the idea of safety.

But there’s no hard evidence that simply desegregating bathrooms by sex would significantly increase the actual risks of sexual assault for women and girls.

Bathrooms aren’t really safer or vulnerable than most other spaces from predatory men. Such men can easily walk into women’s bathrooms and unless there already multiple people around willing to intercede women aren’t really safer than any other space which men and women are permissed to be in or at.

It would just be like most rooms where men and women are allowed to exist.

And the existence of this practice has been used by anti-feminists to actually procure protections people would benefit in their everyday life. For example the Equal rights amendment was shot down in large part thanks to the fear it could lead to bathrooms being desegregated whilst heavily pushing the notion that

And it should be noted such attempts at sex-segregation can actually help turn bathrooms to a people where cis gender conforming people to feel more comfortable with abusing those who don’t fit a cis-heteronormative standard. 
A transwoman or queer man is far more likely to get assaulted in men’s bathrooms than a cis woman is in unisex bathrooms.

If bathrooms simply become another space to which there’s no gendered expectations for whose in it there would be less eagerness to enforce gendered standards in it.

And enforcing such segregation helps perpetuate a harmful idea that the best way to protect women is to just segregate them from potentially being in contact with strange men as if they’re the main perpetrators to which we’d only need to worry about.

Women are not typically sexually assaulted or abused by strange men in dark allies or unisex bathrooms. But people in their daily lives who they know fairly well at the very least.

Edited by Varysblackfyre321
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14 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I thought this particular topic could warrant its own thread about whether unisex bathrooms should be the norm.

@Lollygag

I acknowledge how some women who’ve experienced sexual abuse would be uncomfortable with this given a heightened expectation of privacy and with it the idea of safety.

But there’s no hard evidence that simply desegregating bathrooms by sex would significantly increase the actual risks of sexual assault for women and girls.

Bathrooms aren’t really safer or vulnerable than most other spaces from predatory men. Such men can easily walk into women’s bathrooms and unless there already multiple people around willing to intercede women aren’t really safer than any other space which men and women are permissed to be in or at.

It would just be like most rooms where men and women are allowed to exist.

And the existence of this practice has been used by anti-feminists to actually procure protections people would benefit in their everyday life. For example the Equal rights amendment was shot down in large part thanks to the fear it could lead to bathrooms being desegregated whilst heavily pushing the notion that

And it should be noted such attempts at sex-segregation can actually help turn bathrooms to a people where cis gender conforming people to feel more comfortable with abusing those who don’t fit a cis-heteronormative standard. 
A transwoman or queer man is far more likely to get assaulted in men’s bathrooms than a cis woman is in unisex bathrooms.

If bathrooms simply become another space to which there’s no gendered expectations for whose in it there would be less eagerness to enforce gendered standards in it.

And enforcing such segregation helps perpetuate a harmful idea that the best way to protect women is to just segregate them from potentially being in contact with strange men as if they’re the main perpetrators to which we’d only need to worry about.

Women are not typically sexually assaulted or abused by strange men in dark allies or unisex bathrooms. But people in their daily lives who they know fairly well at the very least.

Nobody is really enforcing bathroom use. I feel like this is a complete nonissue outside of protecting the rights of trans people, especially trans women. I don’t care who is in the ladies’ room as long as they wash their hands (and obviously, don’t assault anyone, but that’s already not allowed). I feel like these debates are never fruitful and always at the expense of the trans community and rape survivors, with everyone trotting those hardships out to push an agenda. Bathroom regulation is the new flag burning. If a business wants separate bathrooms, great, if they want all gender bathrooms, great, if they want both, even greater. If nobody is kicking trans people out (or people they suspect are trans)- it’s fine. I promise you the trans community just wants to be treated like everyone else and their entire lives all the way down to the bathroom they’re allowed to use shouldn’t be dictated to them. Survivors of sexual assault just want to feel safe, which isn’t accomplished by this debate either

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2 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I saw the thread title and I totally thought it was about something else.

For the record, I have had sex in a bathroom.

Of all the places I dont want to have sex, a public bathroom is right up there. I'd rather bang in an abattoir. 

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Assault isn't sex, and to call it sex diminishes the trauma associated with it which is why it's never referred to as such and why so many are confused by the title.

This isn't really an either/or. There's no controversy here except your implication that all bathrooms should be unisex because why not? By all means, have some unisex bathrooms. But do not force women into unisex restrooms with that being the only option.

Edited by Lollygag
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From what I've seen, it's far more likely that women intrude into men's public toilets. In every break at the theatre etc., there is a long queue in front of the ladies' toilets, and when the break is about to end, first a few women and then a stampede will enter the men's toilets as there is normally no queue there. I think it's rather rude to do that especially if there are men standing at urinals. They are normally too polite to complain, though. Unlike most women if the situation was reversed, I would imagine.

I think it would suffice if women's public toilets had more stalls, and that there has to be a separate unisex toilet for handicapped people / changing a baby's nappy and also for people who feel uncomfortable using the normal toilets.

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1 hour ago, baxus said:

Not having to wait in line in front of men's restroom is one of the perks I'd rather not lose.

That's because of the urinals and easy unzipping.

5 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I’m against unisex toilets but only because I feel pretty uncomfortable if I need to go for a nasty heavy dump.

I hear you. Many years ago during some summer voluntary work we stayed at a same sex school (don't remember whether for boys or girls) and we had to share the bathroom. Shower time was unfortunately segregated but otherwise sanitary facilities were shared. For whatever reason, ladies insisted on chatting whenever I was trying to empty my intestines making even more difficult to concentrate. I ended preferring going very early mornings.

In general, I have no problem with unisex bathrooms. In parties often women were often going to the men bathrooms because of the waiting lines. Never saw anything problematic. I understand however those who feel in need of more privacy.  Older ladies and teenager girls in particular feel that more acutely.

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I never understood why they made men’s and women’s toilets the same size? Clearly women can’t get in and out as quickly , it’s not like they can use urinals. Seems like poor planning to me, there is always a massive queue outside the ladies loos, and rarely one for men, no matter where you go. 
 

Thinking about bars and restaurants you’d have to question how many guys are using the cubicles too, and what their actual reason for using them is as well! 

Edited by Heartofice
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8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I never understood why they made men’s and women’s toilets the same size? Clearly women can’t get in and out as quickly , it’s not like they can use urinals. Seems like poor planning to me, there is always a massive queue outside the ladies loos, and rarely one for men, no matter where you go. 
 

Thinking about bars and restaurants you’d have to question how many guys are using the cubicles too, and what their actual reason for using them is as well! 

Women were not equal participants in public life and so buildings were not designed with their needs in mind.  Very simple.

Also, I'm kind of with the consensus here - I'm sure there is a better and more efficient design for public accommodation....in my top issues I'm concerned about this doesn't even make the list that almost made the list that almost made the list.

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17 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Women were not equal participants in public life and so buildings were not designed with their needs in mind.  Very simple.

Also, I'm kind of with the consensus here - I'm sure there is a better and more efficient design for public accommodation....in my top issues I'm concerned about this doesn't even make the list that almost made the list that almost made the list.

Well yes that’s true, if you go back in time it seems there were no regulations until the 80s for women to have more space than men for toilets.

I remember one building I worked in where toilets for each sex were every other floor, and toilets were obviously the same size on every floor. It was an old building, and I’m sure at the time they were just building to the bare minimum in terms of regulations.

I’m not so sure that modern buildings are conforming to these standards though.

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I'm sure there are a few legitimate concerns over unisex bathrooms, but mostly all you ever hear on this issue is barely disguised anti-trans rhetoric.  If someone is against unisex bathrooms and against transwomen using the women's room it's pretty clear they are just a bigot looking for cover.

 

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8 minutes ago, aceluby said:

There was a bar I went to ~15 years ago that had unisex bathrooms.  Stalls only, locks on the doors, everyone just waited in line together.  It worked fine.  Turns out adults can share a toilet with another adult regardless of their genitalia.  Who knew?

I’ve been to a few bars and clubs with unisex bathrooms over the years, and yeah they generally work.. fine. Depends on the venue though, you need a lot of space for all those cubicals and the wash areas needs to be kind of open. 
 

Generally though, it was a bit awkward. Nobody really wanted to look in the mirrors or spend too long checking themselves out. I doubt many people would actually prefer unisex bathrooms if they had a choice. 

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21 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’ve been to a few bars and clubs with unisex bathrooms over the years, and yeah they generally work.. fine. Depends on the venue though, you need a lot of space for all those cubicals and the wash areas needs to be kind of open. 
 

Generally though, it was a bit awkward. Nobody really wanted to look in the mirrors or spend too long checking themselves out. I doubt many people would actually prefer unisex bathrooms if they had a choice. 

Honestly, for a public restroom I just want a place to pee and then wash my hands.  I'm not that picky except that I demand the existence of soap, and those crazy jet engine hand dryers are too loud and make me a little crazy.

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