Football: (Sky-)blue raindrops over a Red parade?

[baxus]

Maybe he decided to retire?

[Spockydog]

Legislation incoming?

Boris Johnson says government will try to stop European Super League

As the piece says, what powers they might have to prevent this remain unclear. But there's probably something. Anti-competition laws will probably cover it.

 

[Spockydog]

37 minutes ago, mormont said:

Wouldn't that then rule him out of consideration for managing any ESL team?

Can't see Mourinho doing that. I know he's less than likely to get any of those jobs anyway, but still.

Sacked because of objections to possibly illegal breakaway league, or sacked due to failure in the Chupacabra Cup final next weekend?

If I was one of Mourinho's advisors, I know which option I'd prefer.

 

[mormont]

6 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Legislation incoming?

Probably not. This strikes me as one of those times when a politician will happily promise to do everything they can, safe in the knowledge that they can't actually do much so the amount of effort required will be minimal.

[Consigliere]

I really didn't expect the ESL clubs to be this brazen. What I thought would happen is that they slowly chip away at UEFA to make continuous incremental changes until one day, 15 years or so from now, we wake up and the CL is effectively a super league in all but name.

The ESL clubs must've consulted legal experts who assured them that they would be in a strong position to win court cases. They've also made changes to the original proposal so that clubs are not breaking away from their domestic leagues and the super league is a champion's league replacement instead.

And let's be honest here, the majority of club administrators/owners in England, Spain and Italy would not want the super league clubs to be expelled from their domestic leagues as that would mean a very substantial drop in revenue for the rest of the teams and all of the misty eyed, poetic waxing about sanctimony/integrity/soul of football is load of crap. Football sold its soul many decades ago and the only thing that is relevant now is money. This is the logical conclusion when billionaires have been allowed to take over the game - a super league might still not happen just yet but this isn't going to go away.

 

 

[Raja]

23 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Legislation incoming?

Boris Johnson says government will try to stop European Super League

As the piece says, what powers they might have to prevent this remain unclear. But there's probably something. Anti-competition laws will probably cover it.

 

 

[Consigliere]

19 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Sacked because of objections to possibly illegal breakaway league, or sacked due to failure in the Chupacabra Cup final next weekend?

 

Reliable Spurs reporters have been saying that his sacking has nothing to do with the super league and a decision was taken before the announcement. Apparently Mourinho had lost the support of almost all of the players.

[The Sunland Lord]

I've just read that in Italy they won't punish the three participants in the ESL this season. Meaning they calculated the risk before, as expected. I don't think the EPL and La Liga will punish their clubs, as well.

[Mark Antony]

This esl shit has just killed any desire to follow the sport kinda. I don’t even care that Mourinho got sacked ffs

[Consigliere]

So Spurs are the only club Mourinho has managed where he didn't win a trophy. Had to be Spurs, didn't it?

 

28 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

I don’t even care that Mourinho got sacked ffs

Levy's timing was perfect then. Mourinho's sacking is not the biggest story in the least.

[The Winged Shadow]

In a lot of ways, wouldn't the smaller clubs be better off with ESL as they will get the European spots instead of the big 6?

They get to keep the big EPL TV money because the big boys are still in local league, but also get the euro spots because big 6 are out of the way.

Only loser seems to be UEFA Champions League as it will be devalued with the big euro clubs out of it. Not sure how much of Champions League money actually trickles down to small clubs and leagues. If EPL stays intact, the funding system for the pyramid stay intact, no?

[mormont]

5 minutes ago, The Winged Shadow said:

In a lot of ways, wouldn't the smaller clubs be better off with ESL as they will get the European spots instead of the big 6?

Yes, but what will those be worth?

This is already a problem with the Europa League. For some clubs, it's barely worth qualifying. A 'Champion's League' that hasn't got any of the big clubs isn't any more interesting to sponsors, broadcasters, etc. than the EL.

[Consigliere]

43 minutes ago, The Winged Shadow said:

In a lot of ways, wouldn't the smaller clubs be better off with ESL as they will get the European spots instead of the big 6?

They get to keep the big EPL TV money because the big boys are still in local league, but also get the euro spots because big 6 are out of the way.

 

I'd say yes. The money in the competition would be less but with the 'big six' out of the way, clubs that had little to no chance of qualifying for European competition year-in and year-out would have a much better chance of being regular participants which would give them an additional revenue stream that they wouldn't otherwise have had even if the money will be less without almost all of the big teams.

The biggest losers here would be Leicester who are on the verge of establishing themselves as a consistent top 4 team. Sevilla would be the big losers in Spain and Atalanta, Roma and Napoli in Italy. But the ESL has reserved 5 places for teams to be invited every season so some of those teams above could still benefit although the criteria for these qualifiers has not been laid out.

 

Quote

Only loser seems to be UEFA Champions League as it will be devalued with the big euro clubs out of it. Not sure how much of Champions League money actually trickles down to small clubs and leagues. If EPL stays intact, the funding system for the pyramid stay intact, no?

The biggest loser would be UEFA as their cash cow will be significantly devalued. If the super league clubs are allowed to remain in their respective leagues then the domestic funding structure will not be affected.

UEFA does make solidarity payments.

Quote

Under the new distribution system, €107.5m will be distributed to the clubs as follows.

UEFA Champions League – champions and league paths
Each domestic champion club that does not qualify for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League group stage will receive €260,000 in addition to the amounts due for participation in each qualifying round.

Each club participating in the qualifying rounds that does not qualify for the UEFA Champions League play-offs will receive the following amounts per round played:
• preliminary round – €230,000
• first qualifying round – €280,000
• second qualifying round – €380,000
• third qualifying round – €480,000 (only for clubs eliminated from the champions path, since clubs eliminated from the league path qualify directly for the UEFA Europa League group stage and therefore benefit from its distribution system)
• No solidarity payments will be paid in the play-offs as the clubs involved will benefit from the UEFA Champions League/UEFA Europa League centralised phase distribution.

Solidarity payments to clubs that do not qualify for the group stage of the UEFA Champions League or the UEFA Europa League

The solidarity payments to non-participating clubs via their national associations will represent 4% of the overall gross revenues of the two competitions.

A forecast total of €130m will therefore be distributed to national associations for their clubs.

 

The ESL clubs have proposed making solidarity payments amounting to €434m per year but I haven't seen any article detailing how this money would be distributed.

[The Winged Shadow]

30 minutes ago, mormont said:

Yes, but what will those be worth?

This is already a problem with the Europa League. For some clubs, it's barely worth qualifying. A 'Champion's League' that hasn't got any of the big clubs isn't any more interesting to sponsors, broadcasters, etc. than the EL.

For the rich clubs Europa might not be worth the effort. But would the smaller or less rich clubs feel the same way? It could be a big stepping stone to increase their international fan base. Or at least another revenue stream.

I am trying to think how the big 6 will convince the other teams in EPL that the ESL benefits them as well. And the big 6 being out of the way could be a good seller.

[Consigliere]

Don't understand how the owners of these clubs can be so belligerent. Fan protests are picking up now. Liverpool and United fans protesting outside their respective stadiums. Bruno and Cancelo have spoken out against it - more players from the ESL clubs need to come out against the proposal as well.

[Heartofice]

The thing with this whole situation is everyone is outraged and claiming they will disown their clubs and not watch any super league matches, but at the same time terrified that nobody really means it and that everyone will silently drop their protests just to see some Neymar action. 

In an ideal world we would all let the super league die on its ass, but we all suspect it will somehow succeed and that is scary 

 

[Soylent Brown]

I wonder if this breaches the players' contracts? Given that they won't be able to play for their national teams, or play in the Champions League, it'll be interesting to see if anyone looks into walking away from their Super League club.

[Consigliere]

Yeah, those are largely empty threats as we all know. Remember when the big six formed the breakaway premier league and that was being proclaimed as the death of English football. Or when the European Cup was rebranded into the CL and expanded. Football is more popular and rakes in more viewers and money than ever.

A minority of fans will probably disown their clubs but that will not have any effect whatsoever. The complaints of the same teams playing every year will be boring and result in a loss of viewers seems unfounded to me as well. By and large, this is already the case in the CL. The vast majority of viewers are clearly happy to watch the big, rich clubs with the top talent play each other all the time.

The sad reality is that if the ESL ever does come to pass it will eventually become normalised among the fans, stadiums will be full, viewers the world over will be tuning in in droves and broadcasters around the world will pay a king's ransom for the rights.

[Heartofice]

9 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Yeah, those are largely empty threats as we all know. Remember when the big six formed the breakaway premier league and that was being proclaimed as the death of English football. Or when the European Cup was rebranded into the CL and expanded. Football is more popular and rakes in more viewers and money than ever.

A minority of fans will probably disown their clubs but that will not have any effect whatsoever. The complaints of the same teams playing every year will be boring and result in a loss of viewers seems unfounded to me as well. By and large, this is already the case in the CL. The vast majority of viewers are clearly happy to watch the big, rich clubs with the top talent play each other all the time.

The sad reality is that if the ESL ever does come to pass it will eventually become normalised among the fans, stadiums will be full, viewers the world over will be tuning in in droves and broadcasters around the world will pay a king's ransom for the rights.

Thing is, viewership for Chanpions league and europa league has been declining.  I found an article from 2019 talking about a super league because the figures were dropping so dramatically something needed to be done.

Im sure the finals tend to attract record viewers but are people really tuning into watch group stage matches ?

[A Horse Named Stranger]

4 hours ago, mormont said:

Wouldn't that then rule him out of consideration for managing any ESL team?

Can't see Mourinho doing that. I know he's less than likely to get any of those jobs anyway, but still.

I would't rule that out. Offside the pitch Mourinho is supposed to be a great guy. And the cynic in me thinks: He was about to get sacked anyway, so he might as well make his sacking about standing up for the football fans/gras root game instead of his failure to deliver the goods.

7 hours ago, mormont said:

It's hard to believe that's just bravado: I'm wondering if they've taken legal advice over the risk of being expelled from their domestic leagues (which they are all members of and, at least in England, part owners of, too) and think there's at least a contestable case against expulsion.

I dunno. As a Scot from Glasgow, you should be very aware of the possibility that those clubs believe they are bigger than the league, and thus won't get sanctioned by their fellow clubs. Ask Sir Minty and Whitey how that played out. Of course here we are talking about six big clubs and not just one club operating under the delusions of grandeur. So I can very well see those clubs assuming the EPL threats are hollow, and that the other clubs needs us more than we need them. Whether the EPL guns is really empty without those six bullets is a good question.

6 hours ago, baxus said:

On the other hand, I think it's about time clubs started pushing back to UEFA and FIFA in a serious manner. I mean, FIFA just shattered all European leagues and competitions schedules for Qatar World Cup and clubs were meant to just sit there and take it? This league is probably not the best way to do it, but UEFA and FIFA are corrupt to the bone and I'd like to see them kicked to the sidelines as soon as possible.

I have seen this argument being brought forward it's absolutely hollow. You are getting to bed with the UAE and Putin's buddy Abramovich, and the Qataris (PSG) were/are very much invited to join. So you are cutting out the middle man, and not making a great stand for human rights. If you want to make bigger point about taking the game away from those organizations, fine. But again, you are taking the game away from them to give it to whom? Hedge funds, a Russian oligarch and human rights abusers in the middle east. That's one way to fight corruption. Don't get me wrong, I am all for cynicism, but this is a bit too much, even for me. This is definately not about the grassroots game.